Should we include descriptions on the Image Database?

[new 2 pfowl]

I thought I should start a new thread for this so that it is clearly separate from the idea of "standardization" of peas raised in another thread.

As our friend @KsKingBee quite sensibly observed:
"I think it would be quite helpful if there was an accepted manual that would spell out what the different types LOOK like. There are accepted colors, why not a definition of what they are?"

So, do you think descriptions should be included?
As @Garden Peas points out, these descriptions would not state what any color/pattern should look like, but only be a helpful guide for how to recognize colors/patterns.
And if so, any ideas about where we would get all of these descriptions? @Garden Peas has suggested the UPA definitions (I'm looking onto this), but they certainly don't have descriptions for everything on their website.

Also, I wonder if it would be useful to have both genotype and phenotype descriptions?
I'm a genetics dunce, but I imagine it might be helpful for some peapeople to understand the genetic makeup of any given color/pattern.
This may help with breeding-related questions.

All input on this topic warmly welcomed!

 

[KsKingBee]

A picture is worth a thousand words but if you are new to peakeeping and don't know what to look for you could miss some very important points. They could be simple points like a few white feathers on the back or the shade of the flight feathers. Without some dialog attached to the photos they are just pretty birds.

You are soliciting help here and there are some very knowledgeable people that can help with the project and if you can ask the UPA folks I bet you will get some help over there too.

 

[Garden Peas]

We have met the UPA and they are us

 

[Trefoil]

I thought I should start a new thread for this so that it is clearly separate from the idea of "standardization" of peas raised in another thread. Good idea

As our friend @KsKingBee quite sensibly observed:
"I think it would be quite helpful if there was an accepted manual that would spell out what the different types LOOK like. There are accepted colors, why not a definition of what they are?" yes, even with a good picture its easy to miss details

So, do you think descriptions should be included?
As @Garden Peas points out, these descriptions would not state what any color/pattern should look like, but only be a helpful guide for how to recognize colors/patterns. It would be what a color/pattern does look like,i.e. if it looks like this, it is an IBBS : not an IBBS should look like this.
And if so, any ideas about where we would get all of these descriptions? @Garden Peas has suggested the UPA definitions (I'm looking onto this), but they certainly don't have descriptions for everything on their website. I have looked at the UPA site and can't ever find detailed descriptions of the different colors/ patterns, can someone tell me where they are?

Also, I wonder if it would be useful to have both genotype and phenotype descriptions?
I'm a genetics dunce, but I imagine it might be helpful for some peapeople to understand the genetic makeup of any given color/pattern.
This may help with breeding-related questions. This would be nice, but I think in some cases the actual genotype is being hashed out still. And at least for the purpose of identifying a bird's color, phenotype is what counts.

All input on this topic warmly welcomed!

Please continue the great job. Thanks.

 

[new 2 pfowl]

Thanks so much for the input!

@Trefoil : the descriptions on the UPA site appear in the Peafowl Photo Gallery: http://www.unitedpeafowlassociation.org/PeafowlPhotoGallery1.html
If you click on the links, you find both photos and descriptions.

*eta:
I should also say that even if we use the UPA descriptive information, it might be useful to present it a bit more clearly (no offense intended, anyone!)
For example, instead of being narrative, have it be more like a list, i.e.

Head color(s): Blue
Facial skin color(s): White
Eye color: Brown
Distinctive markings around eye (if relevant):
Neck color(s): Blue, but can have green tinge in certain light
Breast color(s):

and so on, you get the idea.

 

[Trefoil]

Copiedl from the UPA database::"Spalding Cameo's are hybrids of Blue and Green Peafowl

Spalding Cameo peacocks have brown Cameo coloration and they are long legged compared to
regular Cameos, with yellow coloring on the facial skin."
So then I go the Cameo to find out what it looks like, and I find " ",

but to be fair, they have this to say about opals
"Opal Peacock (pavo cristatus mutation brown and opal)

Male - Crest, head and neck are deep gray. Body is gray. Head and neck have
aquamarine tint that gives the opal gemstone effect. Wings are gray. Breast is lighter
with purplish brown overtones. Tail shows deep olive gray tones with opal, black and
copper ocelli."

which is much better. In other words, our site already has more information on colors and patterns than the UPA. Probably because they are concerned with getting it right to the point of being stymied.

The best database that I've found is Amy's: http://peacockgirl.tripod.com/Peafowl_Variet/Database_Homex.html

 

[Garden Peas]

Copiedl from the UPA database::"Spalding Cameo's are hybrids of Blue and Green Peafowl

Spalding Cameo peacocks have brown Cameo coloration and they are long legged compared to
regular Cameos, with yellow coloring on the facial skin."
So then I go the Cameo to find out what it looks like, and I find " ",

but to be fair, they have this to say about opals
"Opal Peacock (pavo cristatus mutation brown and opal)

Male - Crest, head and neck are deep gray. Body is gray. Head and neck have
aquamarine tint that gives the opal gemstone effect. Wings are gray. Breast is lighter
with purplish brown overtones. Tail shows deep olive gray tones with opal, black and
copper ocelli."

which is much better. In other words, our site already has more information on colors and patterns than the UPA. Probably because they are concerned with getting it right to the point of being stymied.

The best database that I've found is Amy's: http://peacockgirl.tripod.com/Peafowl_Variet/Database_Homex.html

More likely because we are moribund over there, and nobody's available to work on stuff like this too much these days, near as I can tell.

But it's not us versus them, as I keep sayin' ... lots of overlapping participation in the two groups

This forum is much more active these days, so more happening over here. But some of them are some of us and vice versa

 

[new 2 pfowl]

Just for the sake of argument, is this the kind of information that would be helpful to people wanting to know what particular colors/patterns look like?
Of course, not all these criteria would be required for every color/pattern, especially not for more monochromatic birds and for hens.
Or do you guys find narrative descriptions more useful?

General description, subject to variation

Peacock
Crest:
Head:
Eyes:
Distinctive pattern around eyes:
Facial skin:
Upper back of neck (nape):
Neck:
Breast:
Abdomen:
Upper back (mantle):
Wings, including primaries, secondaries, and coverts:
Train feathers:
Ocelli:
Tail feathers:
Leg feathers:
Legs/feet:

Peahen
Crest:
Head:
Eyes:
Distinctive pattern around eyes:
Facial skin:
Upper back of neck (nape):
Neck:
Breast:
Abdomen:
Upper back (mantle):
Wings, including primaries, secondaries, and coverts:
Train feathers:
Ocelli:
Tail feathers:
Leg feathers:
Legs/feet:


*Critical points for the identification of this color/pattern:
*Particular issues relating to breeding


By the way, that Amy's site is an advertising nightmare!

 

[MinxFox]

but to be fair, they have this to say about opals
"Opal Peacock (pavo cristatus mutation brown and opal)

Male - Crest, head and neck are deep gray. Body is gray. Head and neck have
aquamarine tint that gives the opal gemstone effect. Wings are gray. Breast is lighter
with purplish brown overtones. Tail shows deep olive gray tones with opal, black and
copper ocelli."

Oh my! After I saw opals I wasn't sure how to describe them! That is a wonderful description for opals!

But it's not us versus them, as I keep sayin' ... lots of overlapping participation in the two groups

This forum is much more active these days, so more happening over here. But some of them are some of us and vice versa

Oh no! I am one of them! A double agent!

By the way, that Amy's site is an advertising nightmare!

Yes, all the more reason for a nice new descriptive database. Maybe to combine the both of best worlds, you could take an image of for example, an India blue peacock with arrows to different places on his body like the neck and say, "Adult India blue peacocks will have a blue colored neck, and yearling India blue peacocks will have a blue neck with a slight green shine until they get older."
This is just a drawing but it shows what I have in mind as just an idea:


I do like the idea of descriptions with the images. However you do it, I think it will be very helpful especially to new peafowl people.

 

[Arbor]

In the future, I hope to have photos of males of each colour perched beside the male of a normal IB. This will give one of the best comparisons. Just like the following photo (note, this is not my photo, and it is being used as an amazing example of what I'd like to do)

IB on left, bronze on right