Sick Baby

[simplelife16]

We got our first four babies (ever!) last Wednesday; they were day old chicks that shipped on Monday. When they arrived we had three that looked strong and one that we thought was going to be a little bit of a runt, but she caught up and they were all looking good until about two days ago. Before bed Friday night I noticed that one of the initially stronger ones was starting to look a little peaked...not leaving the heater, sleeping a lot more than she had been and certainly more than the others. At this point I just want to put out there all of the bases we covered and see if we're missing anything else we could try:

By Saturday morning she clearly was not looking good and over the weekend it has become clear she is not growing, and then Sunday afternoon I saw blood in her poop. She is still eating, but not really drinking from the waterer. With the exception of one watery poo this morning, she has normally formed poo multiple times a day.

- On Saturday gave Save A Chick electrolytes and she perked up, even started running around with the others. By bedtime Saturday night she looked to be back to normal.
-By late morning Sunday she was slowing down again and resting more so started giving her fluids by syringe regularly
-Yesterday morning started Corid, assuming the blood is from coccidiosis (but reading conflicting things about if it could be that at under a week old?)
-She will still get up every 45 minutes to an hour to eat, and will eat for at 3-5 minutes.
-Temperature has been consistent from what I can tell- she'll huddle next to the heater, but will also move herself away so I'm assuming that means she's regulating herself appropriately.
-Tried moving her out to her own space, but she just hides her head in a corner and sleeps. She seems more active and alert when she does wake up if she's with the others. I am watching to make sure they're treating her well and so far everyone is behaving.
-Have been watching for pasty butt, which happened for the first time this morning.

Her weakness is definitely increasing. She can get up and run to the feeder, but then will sleep for an extended period and isn't active at all today except for eating.
She is clear eyed and alert when she is awake, but mostly laying down. Looking even smaller than the others today then she did yesterday.

Specific questions:
If she's having Corid in the water should I give a probiotic supplement (has other vitamins but no B or thiamine).
I've read about giving egg yolks if it's a failure to thrive issue, but is it correct that's not a good idea with Corid (interaction with choline)?
Is there another source of nutrition we can try, or is she still getting everything she needs from her starter feed?
Assuming I'm still seeing the white urates with her poo can I assume she's staying hydrated enough with the fluids by syringe?
Is there another cause of blood in the poop besides coccidiosis?
Should we separate her from the others, or does that cause more stress to be isolated especially since they will sometimes cuddle up with her and that might be helping her with temperature regulation?

Thanks for any help and thoughts!

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Sunday afternoon I saw blood in her poop

Yesterday morning started Corid, assuming the blood is from coccidiosis (but reading conflicting things about if it could be that at under a week old?)
-She will still get up every 45 minutes to an hour to eat, and will eat for at 3-5 minutes.

Temperature has been consistent from what I can tell- she'll huddle next to the heater, but will also move herself away

Have been watching for pasty butt, which happened for the first time this morning.

If she's having Corid in the water should I give a probiotic supplement (has other vitamins but no B or thiamine).
I've read about giving egg yolks if it's a failure to thrive issue, but is it correct that's not a good idea with Corid (interaction with choline)?

Is there another cause of blood in the poop besides coccidiosis?

Welcome To BYC

Can you post some photos of the poop, the chick and your brooder?

I would give the Corid if there's blood in the poop. Corid should be the only thing in the water.

You can give eggs if you wish - never seen Choline as a contraindication of Amprolium. Curious about it though - do you have a source/link for the Choline interaction?
Plumb's Vet Drug Manual mentions this "excessive thiamine in the diet can reduce or reverse the anticoccidial activity of the drug"- Nothing defines "excessive" so this is why most of us recommend not to give "extra" vitamins that contain B1 (Thiamine) during the course of Amprolium treatment. (Your feed likely does contain B1, but that is normal diet amounts and should be fine)

I would not separate her if she's not getting picked on, stress from separation can make it worse on her - just provide the Corid water for all the chicks.

I would give her a direct dose of Corid IN ADDITION to her drinking the mixed Corid water.
For liquid Corid for such a small chick I would give her 1-2 drops once a day for 3 days.
For powdered Corid mix 1/2 tsp powder with 2 tsp water give her 1-2 drops once a day for 3 days.

The only other thing I can think of that may cause bloody stool in a chick so young would be infection. Does she have any swelling of the abdomen?

 

[simplelife16]

Thanks for the reply. No swelling of the abdomen. I'll add the direct Corid drops and see if it helps.

No pictures of the poop, but a couple of the brooder (just to note: it was half this size when we started. We cleaned it out again this morning and added the extra panels to give the others more space since they're becoming a lot more active. I wanted them to have a distraction and space to explore so they'd leave her alone.) The brooder is in a small room off of our kitchen. With warmer weather we've kept the house closed up to keep it warmer than normal, and have a space heater to keep it warm as needed. Ambient temp is around 80+/-2 and then they have the heater in the brooder. All of the others have done well, and as mentioned before she move closer to and farther away as she seems to need, so I don't get the impression she's not been warm enough. I've also moved food and water closer to the heater so she wouldn't waste energy/calories having to any farther than necessary to access.

She's the tiny gold one next to the heater in the picture.

Link to post about choline interaction (I actually saw the original site she's quoting, but can't find it again...been doing a lot of research the past couple of days!):

"...Amprolium is compatible with vitamins, antibiotics, minerals and other ingredients commonly used in poultry ration but it should not be mixed in concentrates containing high levels of choline because of tendency for it to break down into picric acid."

https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...-sulfamethoxazole-trimethoprim.1212983/page-2

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I think I would provide her with more heat. At 1 wk 90-95F is usually what they need, of course chicks are all different some don't need that much, but if she's staying "isolated" like that I would give her more heat. I've never used a panel heater so can't say what that's like.
Chicks like to get their backs warms - with a broody they press into the hen, with a heating pad system they press their backs up against the heat, with heat lamps heat comes from above and warms their backs.

See how she does with the Corid.

Thanks for the link! Interesting read. It's sort of like the note about Thiamine in the drug manual - " excessive Thiamine" ....."shouldn't be mixed with high levels of choline...."
There's really no specifics is there, so then we have to worry. For me - high levels or excessive means giving quite a bit over what they would normally get. A bit of egg or food that contains vitamins/minerals naturally - I don't worry about the level being excessive or high level. I'm not a vet or nutritionist, but I think the bit of egg she would eat is fine. I have given mine eggs (scrambled! ) during the course of treatment with Corid and have not found it to be a problem. My chicks love eggs so they get that as a daily treat usually starting at 2-3 days old.

 

[simplelife16]

I think I would provide her with more heat. At 1 wk 90-95F is usually what they need, of course chicks are all different some don't need that much, but if she's staying "isolated" like that I would give her more heat. I've never used a panel heater so can't say what that's like.
Chicks like to get their backs warms - with a broody they press into the hen, with a heating pad system they press their backs up against the heat, with heat lamps heat comes from above and warms their backs.

See how she does with the Corid.

Thanks for the link! Interesting read. It's sort of like the note about Thiamine in the drug manual - " excessive Thiamine" ....."shouldn't be mixed with high levels of choline...."
There's really no specifics is there, so then we have to worry. For me - high levels or excessive means giving quite a bit over what they would normally get. A bit of egg or food that contains vitamins/minerals naturally - I don't worry about the level being excessive or high level. I'm not a vet or nutritionist, but I think the bit of egg she would eat is fine. I have given mine eggs (scrambled! ) during the course of treatment with Corid and have not found it to be a problem. My chicks love eggs so they get that as a daily treat usually starting at 2-3 days old.

Giving her a little hard boiled egg yolk mixed with a tiny bit of yogurt and water this morning, just to get something in her. If we want to try offering scrambled eggs do they need chick grit with it? And she's mostly spending time snuggled up in my sweater...will probably keep her there most the day.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Giving her a little hard boiled egg yolk mixed with a tiny bit of yogurt and water this morning, just to get something in her. If we want to try offering scrambled eggs do they need chick grit with it? And she's mostly spending time snuggled up in my sweater...will probably keep her there most the day.

I would try wet chick starter as well.
Scrambled egg is probably soft enough that grit is not needed, but I'm a huge advocate for providing grit to chicks first thing. As soon as mine go in the brooder, they have grit free choice.

Hope she makes it, keep us posted.

 

[simplelife16]

A rough day. Sweet girl looked like she was doing better this morning, eating and with a stronger chirp than yesterday. She even scratched around with the others first thing. Then after mid-afternoon she stopped eating and was clearly getting weaker. I gave her more electrolytes around 7:30 by syringe and she perked up enough to stand up and cheep at me whenever I put her down, and even climbed up from my chest to my shoulder to burrow under my hair, but by 9:00 it was obvious that she wasn't going to recover. She died in snuggling with the family about half hour ago. Sad night at our house.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

A rough day. Sweet girl looked like she was doing better this morning, eating and with a stronger chirp than yesterday. She even scratched around with the others first thing. Then after mid-afternoon she stopped eating and was clearly getting weaker. I gave her more electrolytes around 7:30 by syringe and she perked up enough to stand up and cheep at me whenever I put her down, and even climbed up from my chest to my shoulder to burrow under my hair, but by 9:00 it was obvious that she wasn't going to recover. She died in snuggling with the family about half hour ago. Sad night at our house.

I'm sorry to hear that.
Sometimes you get one that fails to thrive, but it's still sad to lose them like that.