Sick hens: one lethargic, one agitated, all now panting.

[Poppylu]

One of my 1 year old bantam hens is looking like we might lose her. She became lethargic about four days ago and stopped eating and drinking. Her droppings have been a bit watery but hardly any at all over the last couple of days. (No sign of worms or blood). Only other symptom is panting. Today she cannot walk. Here is a rundown of treatment so far. I isolated her yesterday and started emergency dose of Corrid, administered with syringe as she will not drink anything on her own. Also gave her some Nutridrench. My guess was Coccid but what else could it be? She does not seem egg bound and her crop has been empty for (at least) 4 days. Yesterday morning she took a few bites of scrambled egg but nothing since. No obvious response to Corid yet. Is there anything else I can do?
Two other hens are acting out of character too. They are panting, but eating and drinking. I have isolated one and keeping an eye on her. The third is making a LOT of squarking noises, especially in the mornings and is very agitated. When I go out to her she stops but when I walk away she starts again. Her butt feathers look a bit messy so I am guessing wet poos too. Other info that might help: The chickens are in a coop with a run and do come out daily to eat grass etc. Any knowledge and advice is really appreciated.

 

[rebrascora]

Have you checked her crop function? In my experience, bantams seem to be more prone to impaction/slow/sour/pendulous crop than larger fowl. If she has not been eating for several days her crop should be empty, so if you can feel something in it, she is likely blocked up somewhere. You also need to check her over for body condition (how sharp is her breast bone) and any abdominal swelling (between the legs and below her vent). Cupping your hand between her legs to feel is the best way to assess it and compare to a healthy hen. I do it whilst they are roosting so that it is easy to make a direct comparison but obviously that is not possible since you have isolated her.
It is unusual for hens to get coccidiosis once they are adults unless they are moved to a new home, because they develop resistance to the local coccidia as they grow up. Of course a compromised immune system would put them at risk of an outbreak and it is worth treating them with Corid if that is what you suspect. I would not give them Nutri Drench until the Corid treatment is finished because the vitamin B1 in Nutri Drench is counter productive to what you are aiming to achieve with the Corid which works to prevent the uptake of Thiamine (vitamin B1).

The concerning thing is the respiratory issue. If your climate is hot, they may just be panting due to heat distress but it could also be something more sinister.
Do you know if they were vaccinated for Marek's at hatch?
Where did you get them from and how long have you had them?
Have you added any new birds to the flock in the past few months.
What do you feed them?
How long is the grass they have access to?

Sorry to ask more questions than offer answers.

 

[Poppylu]

Thanks for responding!
I have been checking crop daily for last four days. It has been empty the whole time. I have four hens and two others are also panting and acting strange so I have ruled out an individual issue and looking at contagions.
It looks as though we might lose one hen (my fave, of course). She is degenerating and can't sit up now. Her body is soft, not rigid. No abdominal swelling.
It has been very hot and at first I wondered if she had overheated but I've isolated two hens (separately) inside for two days, and they are still panting so I really do not think it is temp related. They do not feel warmer than usual either. It does not seem to be respiratory apart from the panting (no wheezing or wet beak or anything).

I will stop with the Nutridrench (was worried she would starve). We hatched the eggs ourselves a year ago, so no vaccinations at birth. They did come from certified disease free stock. No other chickens have been introduced. I did think they were a bit old for coccidiosis but we have a lot of wild birds in the neighborhood. I'm at such a loss.

We feed them "Scratch and Peck" layer feed. They get grit and oyster shell, some salad/berry scraps and green herbs like oregano thyme mint form the garden. They also get a small handful of blackfly lavae (dried) most days. And rolled oats.

The grass is lawn - not long. Can an isolated group get Mareks? If it's Marek's are they doomed? One last bit of info, the one hen that seems unaffected (as yet) has been broody for two months and spends most time away from the others (upstairs in the coop).

 

[rebrascora]

It is always difficult to diagnose a chicken, especially when you cannot see them and do not know the full circumstances but the following points may be valid....

Whilst breeders are usually NPIP certified (I'm assuming you are in the USA..... it helps if you include a rough indication of your location on your profile page like state or country and country as location is very relevant to many issues) the testing does not cover Marek's Disease for a variety of reasons. Birds with the disease can appear perfectly healthy for long periods during the dormant phases of the disease, like cold sores in people (both are Herpes viruses). You don't know who has it and who hasn't until they have an outbreak and stress usually triggers an outbreak. Marek's is a very complex disease with many possible symptoms most of which also correspond to other ailments. The easiest ones to spot are the neurological ones and the ocular ones but visceral tumours are hidden killers. The heat may have stressed and triggered an outbreak but it may be something else entirely.

I have serious reservations about Scratch and Peck and other similar feeds because it is a grain feed and birds are quite capable of picking their favourite components out of the mix and leaving the ones that are probably better for them, resulting in a dietary imbalance. Usually they go for the high carbohydrate grains and bill out and leave the pulses that have more protein and the powders that they add with the minerals and essential amino acids get left or spilled and wasted too or rats come along and clean up. I have read numerous posts here on the forum about people who feed Scratch and Peck or other grain feeds losing birds to Fatty Liver or their birds suffering prolapses. In my opinion you are far better feeding them a processed pellet or crumble which is homogenous and therefore they are unable to pick out the "best bits" and as a result are more likely to get a balanced ration.

 

[Poppylu]

Thank you so much rebrascora! This is valuable information and I may be learning the hard way from mistakes on this occasion. We had chickens for years when I was a kid and I only remember feeding them wheat and they foraged, but perhaps my memory has deleted a pellet supply as well. I will move forward with pellets/crumble for any who come through this.

We're in New York with backyard chickens and the breeders are NPIP certified. Marek's however, I am learning, is a complex one. Is it likely that three would spontaneously show symptoms after a 100% healthy year of raising them? Their living conditions are clean and comfy and they generally seem very happy. In recent months a major renovation on the building next door has been upsetting them with a lot more loud noise than usual, so that is a possible stress contributor as well as the recent heat which has not been "extreme".

At this point it remains a mystery. The 2nd hen that was a little lethargic seems to be doing better, so perhaps Corid is starting to work. Her dropping was very smelly and watery. The other is taking a nose dive. I am so sad about this!

 

[rebrascora]

Unfortunately, in chicken keeping as with most things in life, there is some heartache as well as much pleasure. If you have had chickens for any length of time, loss is inevitable.
It would be unusual for 3 adult birds with Marek's to all have an outbreak at the same time. The disease suppresses the immune system, so they are prone to secondary infections like coccidiosis or respiratory disease which their bodies would normally be able to fight off, so it could be that the wild birds have brought something in and they are struggling with it. If you are getting hot, humid conditions it could also be a fungal infection of the lungs (aspergillosis). Do they have access to wood chippings from tree surgery, hedge cutting etc. I read a post a few years back where a couple lost half their flock to aspergillosis (identified via necropsy) and it was from some semi fresh wood chips that they had put down in their run.

Smelly poop (other han cecal poop which is always smelly) often indicates an infection. It is not surprising if she is not pooping much if she is not eating. The poop will usually turn green due to bile as the digestive system starts to shut down.
The bird that is not eating or drinking is most likely on a one way trip and I usually "help them to their destination" once they lose interest in food. You might want to consider sending her off for a professional necropsy. Isn't Cornell University in New York or there abouts? They are one of the leading poultry establishments from what I have read. You can find out about state agricultural diagnostic labs via google (search New York state veterinary diagnostics lab) and contact your local one. Most have price lists on their website or you can email them or telephone. Many states subsidise the fees for such services because poultry are considered livestock and part of the food chain, so it is cheaper to use those facilities than a private vet and they have significantly more knowledge and testing facilities. It can be really helpful to know what you are dealing with when you have more than one sick with similar symptoms and they also usually check for internal parasites and report excess fat etc which can help you to better care for your remaining birds as well as obviously identify what is causing the illness they are suffering. I appreciate that the fees may sometimes be too high to justify. I believe that in California they will do up to 2 chickens for $20 but other places charge $60+ for one, so it is a bit of a lottery. Worth checking out though. Also, some facilities will accept samples submitted by the client direct (usually need to be shipped overnight on ice) whilst others seem to insist on them being submitted through a vet which usually incurs an additional charge.
I'm sorry I am not able to put my finger on a definitive cause. It is hard enough to diagnose a bird that you can see and feel and know the history of, so trying to do it blind via a keyboard is less than accurate unless they have a combination of symptoms which point strongly towards one particular illness, which is not the case here.

I wish you luck and please keep us updated, because we can often learn something from such situations which can perhaps benefit the next person to come along with birds showing similar symptoms.

 

[Poppylu]

Ah yes, I understand all of what you are saying and I really appreciate the help you have offered. The droppings were not the normal smelly ones - I figured the illness OR the Corid. They had an unpleasant "rotten plastic" smell. Just putting this out there as a possible clue!?

They do have wood chips but they are Manna Pro "poultry chips" supposedly heat treated against mold and pathogens.

If we lose her I will certainly consider a necropsy. We hatched these birds primarily for the joy of raising chickens and the life lessons that come with caring for animals and my children are very involved. My 8 y.o. "scientist/future doctor" will be especially interested in the results of a post mortem investigation and hopefully it will offset some of the sorrow she will have to process. I have already cried about it, and our lovely chicken is still with us yet! I will keep the board posted. Certainly I have learned a great deal from other wonderful members of backyardchickens!