Signs of Salt Toxicity...please read

[peewee]

Thank you for the forwarning. I will definatley keep this in mind.

 

[lemurchaser]

Quote:
THOSE OTHER ILLNESSES WOULD BE?


ALSO DO THEY PRESENT THE SYMPTOMS IN ORDER AND WITHIN 15=30 MINUTES FROM START TO FINISH?

So the merck manual says: "In poultry, increased thirst, dyspnea, fluid discharge from the beak, weakness, diarrhea, and leg paralysis are some of the common signs of salt poisoning."

Very rarely does one animal present with all the listed symptoms for a disease, so for example if you had a bird with weakness, diarrhea, and dyspnea this could be salt poisoning, severe parasitism, fowl cholera, mycoplasma infection... etc. If you had a bird with weakness, paralysis and seizures, you might consider mycotoxins, salt poisoning, west nile virus, meningitis, etc. I've had birds die from trauma that may have dyspnea, fluid from their beak, seizures and then die.

The keys to diagnose salt toxicity would be a new feed or water change followed by multiple birds being affected. The birds may show a variety of signs, but none of them are really going to tell you 100% that you are dealing with salt toxicity and not something that may just have similar signs.

An animal with severe toxicity should not necessarily be given free access to water, they will want to drink a lot which will drop the concentration of sodium in their body (by dilution) suddenly causing fluid to accumulate in the brain. It's a tough situation because they need to get fluids, but slowly.

 

[Buttercup Chillin]

We are not talking about animals. This is the quail thread, we are talking about birds. Very Very small quail birds.

So what kind of quail do you have, Buttons, Coturnix, Bobwhite or one of its varieties? I don't have any Buttons or Bobwhites, but I have about a 100 Coturnix. So I appreciate information that could harm them. Expecially seeing that when they hatch in 2 weeks, they will be the size of my thumb. With a New Years Hatch going there will be thousands of birds hatching across the country and world for that matter.

I am sure everyone needs to know that problems have been detected in FEED. So be careful for the babies.

So if there is something wrong with the FEED, I will at least know that there was little I could do and to stop using it immediately.
Actually, I have the hatches new bag of feed on hand and have tested it on adult birds today, just in case. Its fine.

 

[Stellar]

Lemurchaser, reread my post, it was directed towards the feed......

 

[lemurchaser]

Quote:
Ah, all I was saying is it might not be... but that is a good first step if you suspect salt toxicity.

You said if you see these signs, then its salt toxicity, so remove the food. All I was adding is "... and consider it could be something else". I didn't mean that you were wrong, just that there is more to consider.

 

[lemurchaser]

Quote:
Sorry, when I use the word "animal" I use it because it applies to most species including other pets or livestock you may have. If you prefer you can change "animal" to "quail" or even "very very small birds". It's all the same.

 

[JJMR794]

Quote:
Ah, all I was saying is it might not be... but that is a good first step if you suspect salt toxicity.

You said if you see these signs, then its salt toxicity, so remove the food. All I was adding is "... and consider it could be something else". I didn't mean that you were wrong, just that there is more to consider.

AGAIN DO THEY PRESENT THE SYMPTOMS IN RAPID ORDER FROM 15 TO 30 MINUTES? I AM VERY WELL VERSED IN ILLNESSES THAT GAMEBIRDS ARE SUSCEPTABLE TO YET CANNOT THINK OF ANY THAT MANIFEST QUICKLY AND IN ORDER LIKE SALT TOXICITY. EVEN ENCEPHALITIS WILL NOT BE AS QUICK IN QUAIL, AND IT IS POSSIBLE THAT POOR TIMING COULD LEAD TO THE DISCOVERY OF SYMPTOMS WHILE YOU ARE FEEDING YOUR BIRDS, BUT MAKE NO MISTAKE NO INFECTIOUS ILLNESS PROGRESSES THAT QUICKLY, NOR DOES MYCOTOXIN POISONING. IF 1 WERE TO FIND THIS SITUATION UPON THEM AND IT WERE AN ILLNESS THEN I WOULD TEND TO SAY THEY NEED TO BE WAY MORE OBSERVANT OF THEIR STOCK BECAUSE THE SIGNS HAVE BEEN THERE FOR AT LEAST 12 HRS+ AND WERE MISSED UNTIL SO SEVERE DEATH WAS IMMANENT AND THUS WOULD POINT TOWARD POOR HUSBANDRY.

SALT TOXICITY IS VERY EASILY OBSERVED IF PRESENT... 1 MINUTE YOUR FEEDING YOUR BIRDS AND 10 MINUTES LATER SYMPTOMS APPEAR, DEPENDING ON THE FEEDS TOXICITY AND BIRD'S SIZE THEY CAN BE DEAD WITHIN 10 MINUTES AFTER NOTICEABLE ONSET. ALL ASSOCIATED WITH FEED OR CONTAMINATED WATER CONSUMPTION. DONT MISS THE FOREST FOR THE TREES=== THIS IS A NOTICABLE, RAPID SUCCESSION OF AILMENTS FLOCK WIDE. WHILE THE SYMPTOMS MAY BE VAGUE INDIVIDUALLY AND IN SLOW ONSET ILLNESS, IN SALT TOXICITY ITS READILY APPARENT IN RAPID SUCCESSION AND IN MASS NUMBERS. WHEREAS VAGUE SIGNS OF DISEASE/ ILLNESS MAY APPEAR IN A BIRD OR A FEW AND SLOWLY PROGRESS THRU MORE VAGUE SYMPTOMS IN A GRADUAL ONSET. SALT TOXICITY RATHER HAS THE APPEARANCE OF CHEMICAL WARFARE WITH A NERVE GAS AGENT AT WORK.

YOU ARE CORRECT IN STATING THE SYMPTOMS CAN BE FROM MANY ILLNESSES OR OTHER CAUSES, QUAILLADY FAILED TO SPECIFY THE SPEED PARAMETERS IN THE START OF THE STRING, OR THE CLOSE CADENCE IN WHICH THEY WILL EXHIBIT OR BE MANIFESTED

 

[lemurchaser]

Quote:
That's true, if it occurred in multiple birds in less than 30 minutes there would be very little question. It is possible to have a slower onset though. Have you ever seen birds recover from this once they are showing paralysis etc? I've treated other species for salt toxicity and it can be really tricky intensive care to get them back after they show neurologic signs. You fix it too fast and you'll kill them, too slow and they'll die.

 

[JJMR794]

In My Experience Paralysis Is A Very Late Sign... For Lack Of A Better Term I'd Say A "too Late Sign" In Most Cases. Siezure Activity Is Next And By Then The Birds Level Of Consciousness Is So Obtunded You Cant Fix Them. You Are Correct That Rehydration/ Dilution Is Tricky At Best, And In A Smaller Speces Like Quial Its Certainly A Tight Rope Act. Due To Their Smaller Stature They Are Way More Susceptible To Things Of This Nature, And Fixing It Is Way More Magnified As Well. Unfortunately It Is A Poisoning And Not An Infectious Agent So Your Warning Time Is Nil

 

[Rozzie]

I know I intend to take this concern very seriously. I'll be "test feeding" each new bag of food from now on to just one or two birds before feeding it to all of them.

I really appreciate that this warning was posted.