Silkie breeding, genetics & showing

[Adoravachick]

great info suze and thank you

I know, she's AWESOME!

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

 

[Hawkeye95]

When the tester arrived, I told her that I had 4 additional birds that were right on the edge. She tested them as well.

that's great!

No, just trying to gain a better understanding of it, stirring the pot usually works. I - having never had "livestock" prior to my birds - had no idea horses or cows had to have specific health clearances to show or leave the state as Hawk mentioned. Showing dogs is apparently very different. Of all the people selling birds and eggs here, very few are NPIP, hence the confusion.
So here's a question, if I want to be NPIP certified so that I can show my silkies, what about my LF laying birds? Do they have to be tested/banded too even though they aren't being shown?

Yep, all livestock must have similar testing done with a state certified vet for that particular test. Some vets are not trained to do it. I do not deal with goats, sheep, swine and cattle on a daily basis, but we do have a meeting with all the Superintendents from those areas (I represent poultry in my county) and I get to sit through a hour of their discussion of what tests are new for them and how our county can continue to be compliant. It is very interesting, though, so I'm never bored in these meetings even though it does not pertain to me. I've learned a lot about what they require as well.

I'm contemplating getting into sheep, so I listen up!

Zak, I don't think we have different diseases here, although prevalence of some diseases tends to be geographic: less likely in some areas, more likely in others. There are some states that will not allow entry of birds that have been ILT vaccinated. That may have changed; I think there have been advances in the ILT vaccines available, and there are ones that are no longer live viruses (with the potential of creating carrier birds).

Many people that I know who show do little or no vaccinating; others vaccinate selectively. I have heard of more than one case of people vaccinating and their entire flock then becoming ill with whatever they were vaccinating for.

Probably the most common thing I hear of Arizonans vaccinating for is fowl pox. Others I occasionally hear mentioned are bronchitis, coryza & mareks.

I do not know for a fact, but someone local told me that if our birds are vaccinated for ILT, we can not show them. I really need to double check that info before our next meet. Sonoran, you do bring up great points!

That's okay

THere are other New Yorkers here, too. All too often people operate under the assumption that things are done where they live is the way they are done everywhere. Helps to know that there are differences, and a discussion of WHY and WHAT is helpful. For one thing, if I want to show somwhere that has significantly different rules, I need to know them.

It has been brought to my attention that I have been nasty. Therefore I would like to say that those were not my intentions. I ask that you all forgive me as I'm not a "people person", I'm a little socially retarded

. I communicate much better with non-human animals. So, sorry to any and all who were put off. If I come off like an a**, feel free to say "hey you are being an a**". Maybe I should make better use of the smileys. Sigh.
I really am learning a lot - and I appreciate everyone's input.

I really appreciate your apology and am happy to move forward! I know apologizing does not always come easy. I'm glad you are learning, as we all are. There are still so many things I need to learn as well. All I can do is pass on what I do know from my own experience.

What about new babies or birds/eggs brought in from other NPIP participants..are they covered in the full flock certification, or do I have to have another visit when the hatched chicks reach age? What about the older birds, will they be covered moving from one NPIP flock to another, even if they come from out of state?

This is where you'll have to check with your local county or state agency. In our state, we have a university that is basically the governing body for our NPIP-- it's Kansas State University. Through that college (which is a vet school) you can become a certified tester (which takes quite a bit of studying), get information for the program and find out who local testers are in our state. You should start with your local County Extension Office and they will put you in the right direction. They deal with livestock and agriculture. I can tell you what happens in our state. In mine, I had birds shipped in last year from an NPIP breeder and she even sent the necessary forms on the box. However, because they crossed state lines, while it was legal to bring them in, it essentially voided their papers after that. So I ended up having to get new papers for them. That may not be the case for you. It's sounding like Kansas must be a pretty strict state concerning birds. I had assumed most states were like mine!

 

[Adoravachick]

From what I understand...when you purchase birds from another NPIP certified flock, those birds are covered. At your next NPIP certification, they would then be retested with your other birds. It would be good to check with your NPIP state agency to be sure.

When purchasing from another NPIP member, you must get their info (name, farm name, etc,) their NPIP number and keep them for your records because your tester will want that info when your flock is retested.

 

[littlecritters]

that's great!  
This is where you'll have to check with your local county or state agency.  In our state, we have a university that is basically the governing body for our NPIP-- it's Kansas State University.  Through that college (which is a vet school) you can become a certified tester (which takes quite a bit of studying), get information for the program and find out who local testers are in our state.  You should start with your local County Extension Office and they will put you in the right direction.  They deal with livestock and agriculture.  I can tell you what happens in our state.  In mine, I had birds shipped in last year from an NPIP breeder and she even sent the necessary forms on the box.  However, because they crossed state lines, while it was legal to bring them in, it essentially voided their papers after that.  So I ended up having to get new papers for them.  That may not be the case for you.  It's sounding like Kansas must be a pretty strict state concerning birds.  I had assumed most states were like mine!  

Here is the site which lists the agencies and contacts for the NPIP program in each participating state ---> http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/animal_dis_spec/poultry/downloads/osa-npip.pdf

 

[jrosemoore]

I do wonder if they are getting NPIP and NAIS mixed up in their mind.  

What is NAIS? Anyone?

 

[jrosemoore]

Also, when you guys first started out what did you do with the birds that didn't meet show quality. Let's just say I have a warm heart and so when I look to my coop I have 4 out of 5 silkies that just aren't up to par. There is an auction this weekend in a nearby town for "all types of animals" that I think I am going to take them too. But what if they end up as someone's dinner? How do you detach from that?

 

[ChicksNherps]

Both of my silkies beaks look dry and cracked in parts? Is this normal

what causes this? How can I fix it if at all? We have a show on the 14th and I am freaking out! Could it be from pecking at a hard forage cake? They smash their beaks on it pretty hard, they also wipe their beaks on the kitty litter bottom and peck at it pretty hard. In case it is food related, they get layer pellets mixed with some fresh wheat grass, millet, and flax. I have also been mixing some oregano and ginger into their food as well as every couple days a tiny bit of garlic because one has a cough I am trying to rid her of (yes I ordered oxine too). I have also been puttring some VetRx on their crests, beaks and feet. Please help! The other one's beak is worse than this one, is there anything I can put on it to help? I have some vaseline.
.

 

[Adoravachick]

Both of my silkies beaks look dry and cracked in parts? Is this normal

what causes this? How can I fix it if at all? We have a show on the 14th and I am freaking out! Could it be from pecking at a hard forage cake? They smash their beaks on it pretty hard, they also wipe their beaks on the kitty litter bottom and peck at it pretty hard. In case it is food related, they get layer pellets mixed with some fresh wheat grass, millet, and flax. I have also been mixing some oregano and ginger into their food as well as every couple days a tiny bit of garlic because one has a cough I am trying to rid her of (yes I ordered oxine too). I have also been puttring some VetRx on their crests, beaks and feet. Please help! The other one's beak is worse than this one, is there anything I can put on it to help? I have some vaseline.
.

I have a couple of breeding hens that looks like this as well. I am wondering if horse hoof creams could be used to moisturize the beak?

 

[Adoravachick]

Also, when you guys first started out what did you do with the birds that didn't meet show quality. Let's just say I have a warm heart and so when I look to my coop I have 4 out of 5 silkies that just aren't up to par. There is an auction this weekend in a nearby town for "all types of animals" that I think I am going to take them too. But what if they end up as someone's dinner? How do you detach from that?

I take mine to tailgates or post them for sale as my local feed store (with a picture). I find that most people genuinely want them as pets not so much as dinner. Unfortunately, you have to hope for the best. It makes me sad sometimes because I know how I care for my silkies, I just hope that they are loved and appreciated the way I have have adored them. That is all you can do.

 

[Hawkeye95]

Also, when you guys first started out what did you do with the birds that didn't meet show quality. Let's just say I have a warm heart and so when I look to my coop I have 4 out of 5 silkies that just aren't up to par. There is an auction this weekend in a nearby town for "all types of animals" that I think I am going to take them too. But what if they end up as someone's dinner? How do you detach from that?

Honestly, maybe here's my farm girl roots showing up, but I hope they DO become dinner. I'm not so sure I believe anyone that truly wants a "pet" from my culls. This year my culls had all of those split wings. I'm pretty sure most of them went to someone's dinner plate. Which is perfect, because they should NEVER be bred. I would have killed them myself, but I just don't have it in me to kill my fluffies when I'm pretty sure I can't stomach black meat. I sold them for eating prices on CraigsList all summer long. I've had some interesting cultures show up to buy them.

I'm hoping they really aren't going to take them home and breed them, but seeing who showed up, I doubt it. I felt a bit irresponsible selling them and then having someone possibly breed them. So yeah, the best thing for them is to be eaten instead of bred. I have a couple of birds right now that I'm hanging onto because they have such bad wry backs (eggs I had shipped in) and I don't even feel right about listing them for sale... I'm super worried someone may NOT eat them! LOL I've been seriously thinking about culling them the old fashioned way here. I just don't think I could eat black meat. If they were white meat birds, I wouldn't have a problem eating them myself. I've done that enough over the years. So I've been hanging onto them and am debating back and forth on listing them. They are cute, even with wry, which is why I worry someone may go ahead and try to breed them. Sigh. Think of it this way, they are CHICKENS. It's much better to be humanely dressed out and put on a table in celebration of life than to perpetuate a bad genetic problem or even to be neglected or starved, or even be snatched by some roving dog that would just tear them apart ruthlessly.