Silkie breeding, genetics & showing

[chikincrazee]

Hi we have partridge Chanteclers..LF and adore how docile they are...Im actually a Canadian living here in the midwest..lol...defected but still have a farm up there in Niagara Falls area..lol...an example of using a bird with good genetics..lets see...well lets deal with a black rooster with some red leakage in the hackles now when he is under i year it is a dq but when he becomes a mature rooster he can be shown with red in his hackles as many develop that after their first molt...many shy from using those birds but often that red will help make the black blacker as in give it a more green sheen....you would have to ask Suze on how it all works....if a bird is of the lines you want let say its George Mihalik who has bred some of the best silkies ever....you have the opportunity to get some of that blood via a bird who maybe is not perfect as in the crest might not be big enough or the rooster has a bigger comb than you like or the cushion is maybe not so large so the bird is an average breeder bird but whose good genes can often come through in your offspring....you can have two of the not so great looking silkies produce the best showbirds and you can have showbirds who never produce anything of quality...silkies are fluffy aliens and are their little gene pools are the washing machines of the chicken world......as for culling that is a delicate subject I love the birds so much but if any of them develop wry neck i put them down ...i do sell pets as i get people who just want a pet for their enjoyment who looks nice just has a dq for showing....and if i have too many roos who i cant find a place for or i think they just should not be bred I send them to an auction where no one knows where they came from and I am just a number. I drop them off and leave they send me a check. I feel sad when i do it but i cant feed them all and this way our name is attached to them.

 

[Me & Jack]

As I approach breeding my own chicks, I often wonder what to do with chicks with dq's and juveniles that develop dqs and cannot be used in a breeding pen? Knowing how I am, I would like to breed top quality and I understand that not all silkies are SQ or BQ, but I also wouldn't feel comfortable with someone using my name as a selling point for an inferior bird. I am not sure if I have the heart to cull (you know what I mean), but I also don't want my name attached to a bird that is a lesser quality bird. I recently hatched 2 chicks from my own birds, a blue and a splash. The splash had 4 toes on one foot. I did sell her as a pet and CLEARLY let the lady know that there was a defect and she was unsuitable for breeding. She was happy that the bird had a little "character", I am ok with that because I know that she didn't have any intention of breeding, they were strictly pets for her children. So many people that I know, just breed anything and everything, I have gotten to the point where I won't buy birds from them because of the mess of a bird that I know they came from. It can be frustrating.

My white and blue roo got in a fight today, through the welded wire fence, blue roo pulled the front part of white's crest out(a good 1/2 inch). White was all bloody, he's fine, just got his comb pecked. So aggravating. Stupid boys, such hot heads.

Oh, I wish there was an easy answer to your question. The problem is, you won't ever know what a bird throws in offspring until you breed it. Obviously there are some traits you'll want to avoid perpetuating, so you may choose not to breed certain birds, but some very ordinary-looking birds can throw some amazing offspring, and the only way to know that is to pair them. By the same token, a very nice SQ bird can produce mediocre offspring, and you end up culling most or all of the birds b/c they just don't have the right type, or they have DQs or you can't show them. Part of what you want to consider is what your goals are. If one of your goals is to show then you need birds that produce amazing offspring even a very small percentage of the time. (For example, a breeder might hatch out 100 chicks but only expect/hope 3-4 of them to be show placers.) That means there will be A LOT of so-so birds in that breeding that you need to cull. But you may choose to keep some of them to breed, maybe b/c they have strengths in some qualities you need to improve upon--a fabulous cushion, for example, even though toes are weak. You might also sell some birds because you can't show them but they have a lot of positive traits and someone else might want to try breeding them. Do you risk losing out on a great breeder? Sure, but you can't keep them all. Trust me. I've tried. LOL

SQ birds are not simply the product of SQ x SQ breedings...not all of the time, that's for sure. Assuming that a bird that isn't SQ isn't worth keeping is a mistake a lot of breeders make. Also, assuming a SQ bird is a good breeder is another common misconception. Obviously you start with the best you can get and breed. If they don't produce what you want to meet your goals (larger % of SQ offspring, birds with better wings, birds with better type, etc.) then you try another breeding combination or get new birds. How is that for an ambiguously unhelpful answer? LOL

Bottom line is you have to know what your goals are, then you have to try breeding to meet those goals. If a hen doesn't produce good offspring try pairing her with a different male. If the offspring are still not good then don't use her. It's not an instant process and you can't expect overnight results. It takes about 4-5 years of consistent breeding to be able to tell with some accuracy what your birds are going to throw. Obviously in that time you will have weeded out a lot of birds that have DQs, don't have traits you want to breed back into your line, or aren't meeting your goals in general. You may also acquire a few outside birds in that time. Just keep picking the strongest and best producers and the birds that possess the qualities you are wanting, regardless of whether they're SQ or not, and go from there.

If you can't cull your birds the "hard way" you'll want to sell them. Some people will be thrilled with your cull birds and will think they're gorgeous just the way they are. Some people will recognize a fault or DQ and might fault YOU as the breeder. Hopefully most of them will realize that there's no such thing as a perfect bird and they won't begrudge you for selling off a less-than-perfect bird to help pay for your hobby. Others will criticize anyone who sells a bird with an extra toe as somehow "watering down" or weakening the breed. So, both decisions--euthanize unwanted offspring, or sell/give away--come with some drawbacks or ethical issues. One of your goals should be to determine which you're more comfortable confronting.

 

[Adoravachick]

For years I had an oriental gentleman who would buy all my culls at $5 each, no matter what the age. The orientals make the equivalent of "Jewish Penicillan" out of black skinned birds. The birds were killed before they left my farm, and taken away in a sack. WHY? See below...

Do a check up of some of the PET QUALITY Silkies you sell after about 6 months. I think some of you may dismayed to see the conditions that your birds are living in, once the novelty wears off.THERE ARE WORSE THINGS THAN BEING DEAD !

I believe that! The thought of my poor silkies being mistreated and just plain abused is heartbreaking....

 

[ChicksNherps]

I keep forgetting to post my question how much can you show a chicken? And can you only do it to a certain age? Reading it sounds like people only show a bird from puller to hen and then done. But if you have a good bird can you keep showing the same bird spring and fall every year?

 

[littlecritters]

Thank you for sharing! This has been a very helpful discussion. It gives me confidence to move forward with the stock we currently have and start developing our own line. Tina G.

Hi we have partridge Chanteclers..LF and adore how docile they are...Im actually a Canadian living here in the midwest..lol...defected but still have a farm up there in Niagara Falls area..lol...an example of using a bird with good genetics..lets see...well lets deal with a black rooster with some red leakage in the hackles now when he is under i year it is a dq but when he becomes a mature rooster he can be shown with red in his hackles as many develop that after their first molt...many shy from using those birds but often that red will help make the black blacker as in give it a more green sheen....you would have to ask Suze on how it all works....if a bird is of the lines you want let say its George Mihalik who has bred some of the best silkies ever....you have the opportunity to get some of that blood via a bird who maybe is not perfect as in the crest might not be big enough or the rooster has a bigger comb than you like or the cushion is maybe not so large so the bird is an average breeder bird but whose good genes can often come through in your offspring....you can have two of the not so great looking silkies produce the best showbirds and you can have showbirds who never produce anything of quality...silkies are fluffy aliens and are their little gene pools are the washing machines of the chicken world......as for culling that is a delicate subject I love the birds so much but if any of them develop wry neck i put them down ...i do sell pets as i get people who just want a pet for their enjoyment who looks nice just has a dq for showing....and if i have too many roos who i cant find a place for or i think they just should not be bred I send them to an auction where no one knows where they came from and I am just a number. I drop them off and leave they send me a check. I feel sad when i do it but i cant feed them all and this way our name is attached to them.

Oh, I wish there was an easy answer to your question. The problem is, you won't ever know what a bird throws in offspring until you breed it. Obviously there are some traits you'll want to avoid perpetuating, so you may choose not to breed certain birds, but some very ordinary-looking birds can throw some amazing offspring, and the only way to know that is to pair them. By the same token, a very nice SQ bird can produce mediocre offspring, and you end up culling most or all of the birds b/c they just don't have the right type, or they have DQs or you can't show them. Part of what you want to consider is what your goals are. If one of your goals is to show then you need birds that produce amazing offspring even a very small percentage of the time. (For example, a breeder might hatch out 100 chicks but only expect/hope 3-4 of them to be show placers.) That means there will be A LOT of so-so birds in that breeding that you need to cull. But you may choose to keep some of them to breed, maybe b/c they have strengths in some qualities you need to improve upon--a fabulous cushion, for example, even though toes are weak. You might also sell some birds because you can't show them but they have a lot of positive traits and someone else might want to try breeding them. Do you risk losing out on a great breeder? Sure, but you can't keep them all. Trust me. I've tried. LOL

SQ birds are not simply the product of SQ x SQ breedings...not all of the time, that's for sure. Assuming that a bird that isn't SQ isn't worth keeping is a mistake a lot of breeders make. Also, assuming a SQ bird is a good breeder is another common misconception. Obviously you start with the best you can get and breed. If they don't produce what you want to meet your goals (larger % of SQ offspring, birds with better wings, birds with better type, etc.) then you try another breeding combination or get new birds. How is that for an ambiguously unhelpful answer? LOL

Bottom line is you have to know what your goals are, then you have to try breeding to meet those goals. If a hen doesn't produce good offspring try pairing her with a different male. If the offspring are still not good then don't use her. It's not an instant process and you can't expect overnight results. It takes about 4-5 years of consistent breeding to be able to tell with some accuracy what your birds are going to throw. Obviously in that time you will have weeded out a lot of birds that have DQs, don't have traits you want to breed back into your line, or aren't meeting your goals in general. You may also acquire a few outside birds in that time. Just keep picking the strongest and best producers and the birds that possess the qualities you are wanting, regardless of whether they're SQ or not, and go from there.

If you can't cull your birds the "hard way" you'll want to sell them. Some people will be thrilled with your cull birds and will think they're gorgeous just the way they are. Some people will recognize a fault or DQ and might fault YOU as the breeder. Hopefully most of them will realize that there's no such thing as a perfect bird and they won't begrudge you for selling off a less-than-perfect bird to help pay for your hobby. Others will criticize anyone who sells a bird with an extra toe as somehow "watering down" or weakening the breed. So, both decisions--euthanize unwanted offspring, or sell/give away--come with some drawbacks or ethical issues. One of your goals should be to determine which you're more comfortable confronting.

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Could you possibly elaborate a bit on how and when to use a bird that comes from good lines but is so-so? Could you share an example or scenario in which that rooster (from your post) would be used to improve a line of birds? Thanks in advance.

Sometimes, it is also about how you combine birds - a female with great type, for example, but whose toes could use improving, being used with a male from proven lines that has maybe less than ideal type but perfect comb, toes, and foot feathering.

 

[thedragonlady]

I keep forgetting to post my question

how much can you show a chicken? And can you only do it to a certain age? Reading it sounds like people only show a bird from puller to hen and then done. But if you have a good bird can you keep showing the same bird spring and fall every year?

My black Silkie hen, MAMA, went Show Champion at 8 1/2 years old. If you take care of them, you can show good Silkies for a long time.

 

[chikincrazee]

My black Silkie hen, MAMA, went Show Champion at 8 1/2 years old. If you take care of them, you can show good Silkies for a long time.

Yes thats why we chose silkies as our main show bird as they can go on for many years and often they improve with some age too!!!..I hope we can still take ours to shows at 8 1/2 years kudos to you for having a show champion at that age. I still havent found that white kitty litter yet.

 

[ChicksNherps]

one more question. I was watching my "girls" a minute ago... is it possible to have a cockerel who looks like a pullet even at 10 months and doesn't crow? The splash "pullet" I have acts very boyish and doesn't lay eggs, but hasn't crowed even when egged on by other roosters. Looking at "her" tail today too it seems she has gotten even more stiff tail feathers since the last time I looked. I will post a video of them while they are eating now so you can maybe see what I mean by acting boyish.

 

[Me & Jack]

I keep forgetting to post my question

how much can you show a chicken? And can you only do it to a certain age? Reading it sounds like people only show a bird from puller to hen and then done. But if you have a good bird can you keep showing the same bird spring and fall every year?

It entirely depends on the condition of your bird. If you have a bird that comes into top condition every spring and fall you can certainly show her as long as you wish. But condition is very important. I won Champion Featherleg at my pullet's first Fall show. By the last show of spring she placed third...just because she was no longer in such great condition. So, as long as your girl is in peak condition you can show her as often as you like. Some people have the best show wins with their hens, who just fill out better than they did as pullets. So, age doesn't matter.