Silkie breeding, genetics & showing

[Tammylr]

Your posts confuse me.  Are the "lavender with lacing" and the "porcelain" chicks the same?  Are the "lavender bird that is "frosted" with tan tipped feathers" what you are calling porcelain?  Are these the same as the chicks you are calling "lavenders with lacing"?  You mentioned breeding in a previous post.  What are your reasons/goals for breeding?  Just curious. 

Yes, my porcelains are lavender with lacing and they look like they are frosted with a tan color. I'm not breeding these birds, I'm focusing on the BBS and white. I plan to breed towards the sop and eventually start a line of standard sized silkies that are meaty and lay well. My later goal may never become reality without some outcrossing though. I'm thinking maybe an outcross to an Orpington.

 

[gojira]

Yes, my porcelains are lavender with lacing and they look like they are frosted with a tan color. I'm not breeding these birds, I'm focusing on the BBS and white. I plan to breed towards the sop and eventually start a line of standard sized silkies that are meaty and lay well. My later goal may never become reality without some outcrossing though. I'm thinking maybe an outcross to an Orpington.

If the chicks are as you describe, that is not porcelain. Porcelain does not have lacing, and the color is the inverse of what you describe, with white in the mix as well. This goes back to the first post I had in this forum, but I would learn more before posting, or at least ask more questions before making statements. You mentioned your genetic information came from the Chicken Calculator, and that is not the best source of information. I know you mentioned "everyone on BYC" loved it, but that is not true. The Chicken Calculator makes a lot of assumptions that are not true for all birds with a particular color pattern. I have played with it, and even when correcting for genes I know are in my birds, it does not come out very accurate. If you are serious about chickens, I would find a reputable mentor to learn from. If you are breeding towards the SOP, I would start over with new birds. The birds you have shown have poor pigmentation, at least in the shanks and toes. The feet should be completely black. Also, the toes did not look great either. That is what can be seen at this point. As they grow, it will be easier to see other faults and disqualifications. If you are wanting to increase size, then you are breeding away from the SOP as well. Why did you choose an Orpington? If one wanted to do that, there are much better choices.

 

[Tammylr]

If the chicks are as you describe, that is not porcelain.  Porcelain does not have lacing, and the color is the inverse of what you describe, with white in the mix as well.  This goes back to the first post I had in this forum, but I would learn more before posting, or at least ask more questions before making statements.  You mentioned your genetic information came from the Chicken Calculator, and that is not the best source of information.  I know you mentioned "everyone on BYC" loved it, but that is not true.  The Chicken Calculator makes a lot of assumptions that are not true for all birds with a particular color pattern.  I have played with it, and even when correcting for genes I know are in my birds, it does not come out very accurate.  If you are serious about chickens, I would find a reputable mentor to learn from.  If you are breeding towards the SOP, I would start over with new birds.  The birds you have shown have poor pigmentation, at least in the shanks and toes.  The feet should be completely black.  Also, the toes did not look great either.  That is what can be seen at this point.  As they grow, it will be easier to see other faults and disqualifications.  If you are wanting to increase size, then you are breeding away from the SOP as well.  Why did you choose an Orpington?  If one wanted to do that, there are much better choices. 

Since porcelain is not a recognized color and there are right now may different birds that people are calling porcelain saying mine are not is just wrong. I have done my research. Yes there are other options for breeding a standard silkie, since I haven't started this yet I'm still looking at the different birds. I like the orpingtons. They are less feather and more meat than some of the others. Who are you to tell me my choice is poor? Yes ONE of my silkies doesn't have the dark skin all over, she is a dominant white and they don't sometimes. I'll be breeding towards the dark skin. Have you even read the sop for silkies? There's one thing I can say for my chicks and that's that their feet are AWESOME! They have great feathering to the outside and middle toe and the fifth toe is longer as it should be. Every time you respond to one of my posts you are disrespectful. What exactly is your problem?! Oh, and the chicken calculator is only able to do so much. That's why I don't personally use it and map out my own genes when looking at what I can get from which crossing.

 

[Tammylr]

§ Legs and Toes: Male - Legs short and stout, set well apart, straight when viewed from the front. Lower thighs: short, stout at top, tapering to hocks, abundantly feathered. Hocks: covered with soft and silky feathers curving inwards about the hocks.
Shanks: rather short, stout in boner, well feathered on the outer sides with silky plumage, the upper part growing out from thigh plumage and continuing into foot feathering. Spurs: medium size and length, set just above the 5th toe. Toes: five, the three front straight, well and evenly spread, the hind toe double, the normal toe in natural position and the extra toe placed above, starting from close to the other toe, but well formed, longer than the other toes and curving upwards and backwards; the outer and middle toe well feathered. Female - same as male except no spur. (Bare middle toe a serious defect in either sex).

This can be found on the club web site if you want to read the whole SOP on the silkie: http://www.americansilkiebantamclub.org/standard.asp

 

[SizzleQueen]

Got this roo today at a swap for 5 dollars.. he was in with 15 other silks and lived in a dog coop. Fell inlove and thought he'd be great for my cochins.. what do you guys think?-

 

[Tammylr]

Got this roo today at a swap for 5 dollars.. he was in with 15 other silks and lived in a dog coop. Fell inlove and thought he'd be great for my cochins.. what do you guys think?-

Got this roo today at a swap for 5 dollars.. he was in with 15 other silks and lived in a dog coop. Fell inlove and thought he'd be great for my cochins.. what do you guys think?-

I think he's cute. Nice and dark, can't tell from this angle about his fluffiness but I think he looks pretty good. What are you doing with the Cochins? I know they are a common mix for people with silkies for different traits since their body type is so close to the silkies.

 

[howfunkyisurchicken]

For $5, I think got a great deal! He's adorable

 

[SizzleQueen]

Yes I was thinking the three I have will just be his girls. (Right now I am doing a 30 day separation because I want to make sure they are all healthy. Specially from my flock.)

I generally had horrible luck when it comes to my hens sitting their eggs.. but I am hoping these little Cochins will want too.

 

[Tammylr]

Yes I was thinking the three I have will just be his girls. (Right now I am doing a 30 day separation because I want to make sure they are all healthy. Specially from my flock.) 


I generally had horrible luck when it comes to my hens sitting their eggs.. but I am hoping these little Cochins will want too.

Sounds good. They will make cute sweet babies.,

 

[gojira]

Since porcelain is not a recognized color and there are right now may different birds that people are calling porcelain saying mine are not is just wrong. I have done my research. Yes there are other options for breeding a standard silkie, since I haven't started this yet I'm still looking at the different birds. I like the orpingtons. They are less feather and more meat than some of the others. Who are you to tell me my choice is poor? Yes ONE of my silkies doesn't have the dark skin all over, she is a dominant white and they don't sometimes. I'll be breeding towards the dark skin. Have you even read the sop for silkies? There's one thing I can say for my chicks and that's that their feet are AWESOME! They have great feathering to the outside and middle toe and the fifth toe is longer as it should be. Every time you respond to one of my posts you are disrespectful. What exactly is your problem?! Oh, and the chicken calculator is only able to do so much. That's why I don't personally use it and map out my own genes when looking at what I can get from which crossing.

Porcelain IS a recognized variety in several bantam breeds, just not Silkies. Since is an already recognized variety/color/pattern, that is the guideline in every breed it is used in. I happen to have porcelain birds in three breeds of bantams, so I am familiar with the color/pattern. One should not use an already established term to describe any random thing. I know it is not just a problem in Silkies, but people do the same in other poultry breeds, but it doesn't make it right. It misleads the people buying the birds into thinking they are getting a particular color/pattern, and they are not. Lavender with lacing and lavender with frosted with tan tipped feathers are two different things, and neither are considered porcelain. To claim such is wrong. What research have you done? I thought the American Poultry Association Standard of Perfection was the only option for breeding standard Silkies, at least in the US and Canada. Or do you mean large fowl Silkies rather than standard Silkies? I like Orpingtons also, and even have some in the buff variety, but that does make them a good choice to cross with a Silkie to get something that remotely resembles a large Silkie. Why would less feather matter? You are not wanting the birds to resemble Silkies? Silkies are not a hard feathered breed. If you want less feather and more meat, then there are much better choices than Orpingtons there also. I was only telling you there were better birds to use to minimize the issues that would arise from such a cross, and save time and effort. You posted pictures of two Silkies that had poor pigmentation, and one was not dominant white. It doesn't have so much to do with being dominant white as it does being a recent cross. How will you be breeding towards "dark skin" if the bird does not have it to begin with? Yes, I have read the SOP for Silkies, as well as many other breeds, and that was why I made the comments I did. Have you read the SOP for Silkies? Maybe the pictures are not good, but the feet do not look anywhere near AWESOME in the pictures you posted. Also, they do not appear to have "great foot feathering to the outside and middle toe". I do not feel I am disrespectful, but only honest. You have been the one that has been disrespectful. To me, and also to poultry geneticists. You seem to feel they had no clue what they were doing, and you can use standard terms for any random thing you choose. I am not sure what you feel you gain by doing that. You were the one that told me you got your information from the Chicken Calculator, and EVERYONE on BYC raved about it, and even posted links to it. If you don't get your information from the Chicken Calculator, then where do you get your (mis)information? Which genes have you mapped out, and what protocol do you use?

§ Legs and Toes: Male - Legs short and stout, set well apart, straight when viewed from the front. Lower thighs: short, stout at top, tapering to hocks, abundantly feathered. Hocks: covered with soft and silky feathers curving inwards about the hocks.
Shanks: rather short, stout in boner, well feathered on the outer sides with silky plumage, the upper part growing out from thigh plumage and continuing into foot feathering. Spurs: medium size and length, set just above the 5th toe. Toes: five, the three front straight, well and evenly spread, the hind toe double, the normal toe in natural position and the extra toe placed above, starting from close to the other toe, but well formed, longer than the other toes and curving upwards and backwards; the outer and middle toe well feathered. Female - same as male except no spur. (Bare middle toe a serious defect in either sex).

This can be found on the club web site if you want to read the whole SOP on the silkie: http://www.americansilkiebantamclub.org/standard.asp

Can you explain where your chicks fall short of this standard? Or are you wanting me to explain it?