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I'd like some feedback on these wings. 8 month old pullet. The right wing is obviously much worse. She has 3 feathers that are about 2 1/2 inches long growing where the axial feather should be. They are straight but flimsy feathers and don't show in the photo. I noticed this problem about two months ago. Picture was taken this AM. She has very good wing carriage.



 
I'd like some feedback on these wings. 8 month old pullet. The right wing is obviously much worse. She has 3 feathers that are about 2 1/2 inches long growing where the axial feather should be. They are straight but flimsy feathers and don't show in the photo. I noticed this problem about two months ago. Picture was taken this AM. She has very good wing carriage.



Honestly, my personal opinion is that it looks fine. If you say there are feathers coming in there, then I'd say, pretty decent. All the feathers are growing in the same direction, and I think the shredding looks great. The axial feather, BTW, is a short feather, and on the last picture (the left wing), I think you've pulled the wing too far out which shows that gap. I think the wing is beautiful. The left wing-- first picture-- I'm not so sure about the gap, I wonder if she has feathers coming in? Could the gap be there because you pulled the wing too far out? Okay-- so back to the right wing, is that a bit of twisting in the secondaries? Or is that the light hitting it so it kind of looks like that. If they aren't twisted, I'm still not so sure I'd call it a split... I mean, I'm not crazy, I do see there is a gap there, but did you say you did feel feathers coming in? Maybe wait a couple more months and see? The other thing that makes me think it isn't really split wing is because of all the wing pictures I've seen, most of the splits occur closer into the primaries. I think your axial feather might actually be there... ? and she is likely fine. But that's just my opinion.


***Hattrick posted this picture on their site as a Split Wing-- showing how the feathers are growing in two different directions..
wing4




See--- I think this is just a very confusing subject. I have some really immature wings right now. I should post some more! They look like they have obvious splits in them (they are immature wings, too) but the direction remains the same (growth wise). This bird looks better than a couple of mine that I'm worried about.

But yeah, she tucks them up nicely, looks great that way. Some of the obvious splits looks like their feathers are sticking out or stacking wrong.
 
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Honestly, my personal opinion is that it looks fine. If you say there are feathers coming in there, then I'd say, pretty decent. All the feathers are growing in the same direction, and I think the shredding looks great. The axial feather, BTW, is a short feather, and on the last picture (the left wing), I think you've pulled the wing too far out which shows that gap. I think the wing is beautiful. The left wing-- first picture-- I'm not so sure about the gap, I wonder if she has feathers coming in? Could the gap be there because you pulled the wing too far out? Okay-- so back to the right wing, is that a bit of twisting in the secondaries? Or is that the light hitting it so it kind of looks like that. If they aren't twisted, I'm still not so sure I'd call it a split... I mean, I'm not crazy, I do see there is a gap there, but did you say you did feel feathers coming in? Maybe wait a couple more months and see? The other thing that makes me think it isn't really split wing is because of all the wing pictures I've seen, most of the splits occur closer into the primaries. I think your axial feather might actually be there... ? and she is likely fine. But that's just my opinion.


***Hattrick posted this picture on their site as a Split Wing-- showing how the feathers are growing in two different directions..
wing4




See--- I think this is just a very confusing subject. I have some really immature wings right now. I should post some more! They look like they have obvious splits in them (they are immature wings, too) but the direction remains the same (growth wise). This bird looks better than a couple of mine that I'm worried about.

But yeah, she tucks them up nicely, looks great that way. Some of the obvious splits looks like their feathers are sticking out or stacking wrong.
There is definitely three feathers in the gap that are about 2 1/2 in. long but they haven't grown in 2 months. Yes, those secondary feathers do have some twist. Thanks for the opinion. Wish there was a clearer definition. :)
 
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I was over hanging out with Janine today while our kids had a play date we had chicken chat. LOL
We were discussing the whole wing thing for quite a while.

Judith I think the wing looks good, if there are short feathers there, try pulling them out, they may have been broken and thus until they molt will not grow back. But by looking at those pictures I swear I can count 9 primaries, which is what almost every silkie I've ever counted primaries on, only have 9. I have had 2 out of over 70 silkies have 10 primaries. Also during Janine and my's convo today she said a judge once told her he looks for atleast 9 primaries in a good wing.
 
I was over hanging out with Janine today while our kids had a play date we had chicken chat. LOL
We were discussing the whole wing thing for quite a while.

Judith I think the wing looks good, if there are short feathers there, try pulling them out, they may have been broken and thus until they molt will not grow back. But by looking at those pictures I swear I can count 9 primaries, which is what almost every silkie I've ever counted primaries on, only have 9. I have had 2 out of over 70 silkies have 10 primaries. Also during Janine and my's convo today she said a judge once told her he looks for atleast 9 primaries in a good wing.
Oh Jesse, you lucky dog!! So nice to have silkie people -- especially Janine!-- living so close to you! I wish I had someone like you all or Judy living close to me! I bet that wing discussion was great! But good point about the number of primaries! I have never actually counted the primaries, so I didn't realize that, but I did know that the worst splits I've seen have occurred closer into the primaries-- like the picture above, which I think is why they don't stack right because the split is only a few feathers in. Okay, this makes me want to get some more wing pictures up! I have a couple more birds that I think are interesting.
 
So I know that silkies should have a walnut shape to their combs...but what the heck would this qualify as? To me it just looks like a big ole tumor..lol






Same bird, I've checked his wings and all the feathers are there, but he doesn't ever seem to carry them tight. It has been very hot so I can't blame him too much but I wish he would so I could see what his carriage truly is. Any other thoughts on him? I'm pretty much ready to rehome him, but don't want to jump the gun as he is only shy of 4 months old.







Now another question, how can you differentiate between a black and a dark blue? Would you consider her black or dark blue? She came from paint breeding.


 
So I know that silkies should have a walnut shape to their combs...but what the heck would this qualify as? To me it just looks like a big ole tumor..lol






Same bird, I've checked his wings and all the feathers are there, but he doesn't ever seem to carry them tight. It has been very hot so I can't blame him too much but I wish he would so I could see what his carriage truly is. Any other thoughts on him? I'm pretty much ready to rehome him, but don't want to jump the gun as he is only shy of 4 months old.







Now another question, how can you differentiate between a black and a dark blue? Would you consider her black or dark blue? She came from paint breeding.


I suspect what is going on with that comb is that the expression for a rose comb is stronger than the expression for a pea comb, which gives you more of the rose comb traits (smaller wattles with a less well-developed beard). Here is a link to a rather complicated article written by Sigrid about combs, wattles and beards in Silkies. If you have a grasp of genetics it will probably make more sense to you than it does to me. It has a photo of a bird with a very similar comb to yours. http://www.chickencolours.com/What%20Wattles-lowres.pdf

As for your blue/black bird. I say she's dark blue because you can see a lighter underfluff. Blacks will be black/dark all the way through.
 
I'd like some feedback on these wings. 8 month old pullet. The right wing is obviously much worse. She has 3 feathers that are about 2 1/2 inches long growing where the axial feather should be. They are straight but flimsy feathers and don't show in the photo. I noticed this problem about two months ago. Picture was taken this AM. She has very good wing carriage.




Gosh, it's not easy to tell exactly what is going on. The right wing does appear to have a number of broken feathers in the last few primaries, and there's definitely a gap going on into the secondaries.I don't see what I would think is an axial feather (although there very well might be one, but even counting the primaries one can't be sure), but the secondaries don't seem to fan out at all on that right wing. The left wing does look better, and it fans out nicely, especially compared to the right wing. But again I see a gap -- missing axial? molted axial? Can't tell for sure. Wish I could be there to look over the bird in person -- could give you a much better idea of what I think it going on. Suffice it to say, you need to determine if there is a missing follicle on either wing where the axial feather should be. Count in 9 primary feathers and see if there's a missing feather at the point that would be #10. Or determine where the secondaries start and see if there is a missing follicle before them. Whichever way is easier for you (b/c the # of primaries seems to vary between 9 and 10 with Silkies from what I gather...or people count the axial as the 10th primary). The only other thing I could say would be to take more photos of that right wing by holding it in a variety of ways so we really get a sense of the wing and not just the position it's being held in by your hand. And unless one checks for a missing follicle on that axial, there's really no way to tell for sure or not whether it is a permanent condition or just temporary. Not very helpful of me. Sorry.
 
Still waiting on clarification from the APA on their definition of split wing -- have left several messages with several people and have heard back from none of them (???). Have heard from a multitude of breeders who have differing opinions on what constitutes split wing, although those who read the SOP definition as it is written agree that it says the permanent absence of the feather and follicle. Spoke to a judge who did not indicate he had read the definition but he seemed confident that split wing is any gap, regardless of cause, then he mentioned that judges will immediately look for the missing follicle if they see a wing with a gap. Not sure why they would look for it if it doesn't matter what the cause is, so that kind of makes me wonder. Several breeders have referred to "true split wing" as meaning the missing feather/follicle---which suggests that there is a definition of split wing used that is somehow not the "true" definition.

So, that's where we stand for now. Still working on this, though. There needs to be some consensus, and so far I haven't found any. Unfortunately, this means the question of what, exactly, constitutes split wing is still up in the air. I shall not rest...LOL
I admire your persistence. Please let us know when you hear something?
 

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