Silkie breeding, genetics & showing

[tiki244]

This is a very informative discussion. Thank You for sharing dragonlady. This gives me hope that I may be able to improve my little flock of silkies. I do have a white rooster that does have some nice babies but am thinking I should search out an excellent one to buy. Does anyone have suggestions on where the best place to buy adult silkies is? I am not a fan of shipped eggs so much. My last batch was a 0% hatch rate. Thank You

 

[Adoravachick]

I just don't know enough about the paint genes to know what she'd throw or what could happen. Anymore, I find it is easier to just get rid of a bird than deal with problems. What color are you wanting from her? More whites? I guess it would be important to know what you were wanting to use her for and decide if she fits that plan.

Me neither and I don't think that I am interested in finding out at this time. I am wanting more whites, so she is throwing a monkey wrench. I have a little white roo too, he's cute, but not very typey and very skimpy in the foot feathering. I may just sell them as a pair at the tailgate.

 

[KMHunter]

The greys came out right in the first generation.The initial buff female, whatever she was...about three crest feathers, cochin shape and feathering, but good gold color, was culled after the first generation hatched. The buff males were culled for 4 generations, as were the 1-3 generation females after they had laid. In the 4th generation , I had showable females, but I kept no Buff males until the 5th generation. I was hatching maybe 12- 15 chicks in each generation.I kept a few White females in the 3rd generation, as they had super type, and snow white color.


The first White cross gave me 1K, and 4 females, all Buff, with light blue under fluff, from 10 eggs. The blue receded in each generation, as the buff got more intense. The type was great by the second generation. I think over the 5 generations I probably hatched no more than 75 -100 birds. I kept about 15 of them in the 5th generation, including the Whites. I always limited myself to no more than 10 grown birds in each color, so "Chicken Math" wouldn't take over. Having such a wonderful White cock bird as Lester, certainly helped keep the numbers down too.

Because I was able to use Lester on Whites, Blacks , Grey, Partridge, and Buffs, most of my colored birds, when bred to another bird of their color, would throw great Whites. None of these showed his hint of brass in the hackle in immature feathers, as they were all true recessive whites. Due to the excellent White type percentage of blood, they were all the same SHAPE too." Type makes the Breed. Color makes the Variety." cannot be repeated often enough.

This is so interesting and very informative.

It makes me I at least have options for the blacks I want to work on if I can't find any good type in the boys available.

 

[Hawkeye95]

Me neither and I don't think that I am interested in finding out at this time. I am wanting more whites, so she is throwing a monkey wrench. I have a little white roo too, he's cute, but not very typey and very skimpy in the foot feathering. I may just sell them as a pair at the tailgate.

GOOD whites are not too hard to find anymore. So many people are breeding good solid whites. I think that sounds like a great plan, to sell them and find nicer ones. I see them all the time-- people like Christina G have really great whites-- and win with them all the time!

 

[Me & Jack]

\When you get Whites from colored breedings, you clean out the yellow gene, and better the type. Your recessive white birds will not show yellow.Your colored birds will have better type.Simple enough for me.

So, out of curiosity, since I only breed whites, how would you suggest I work towards breeding out the yellow/brassiness of some of my white birds? Enjoying your input. Thanks for sharing -- wish other experienced breeders would be as generous with their knowledge and observations.

 

[Hawkeye95]

So, out of curiosity, since I only breed whites, how would you suggest I work towards breeding out the yellow/brassiness of some of my white birds? Enjoying your input. Thanks for sharing -- wish other experienced breeders would be as generous with their knowledge and observations.

I'm not answering! But just curious-- are yours gold or silver based? I ran into a lady at my last show and she had the whitest whites I have ever seen and she had some how bred them all over to the silver based gene-- so no way to leak out any gold or get a brassy color. Or at least-- THAT is what she said. Thought it was interesting, but had no idea how she went about doing it.

 

[littlecritters]

I used a White cock bird as I was unable to find any colored Silkie males who had the type I wanted to make my Buffs.There simply were no true Buff Silkies at that time. I bought Lester specifically to make those Buffs, knowing that he came from a long line of very good whites.When I saw the type he was stamping, I tried him in small settings on the other colors.Lots of the older breeders used whites on their colored birds to keep TYPE. Breeding for BBS is a different genetic matter.. I had no desire to play with the blue gene, as I wanted real blacks to the roots. Too many blacks nowadays showing blue underfluff.

I never hatched more than about 10,or 15 eggs at a time in my other colors.  When you get Whites from colored breedings, you clean out the yellow gene, and better the type. Your recessive white birds will not show yellow.Your colored birds will have better type.Simple enough for me.

DragonLady, thank you so much for generously sharing your knowledge with us. You have been so helpful and it is very much appreciated. I am reading every word you write with such interest. Would you mind elaborating on what you meant in an earlier post about the "rearing" stance in silkies? And can you share some thoughts on how to eliminate the blue under fluff in pure black birds?

 

[thedragonlady]

Littlecritters,
A good Silkie should look like it's body is hanging from it's hips, like a tetter totter. The front end must be down, and the rear end must, and I mean MUST, if it's typy, Be UP. That puts the cushion in the air and the chest low. I'm seeing too many reared back Silkies with the front of the bird higher than the rear.Not correct in a Silkie, or a Cochin.

To breed good Blacks...Stay away from Blue. I'd rather use a good White, any day. That way you will get true to color birds, right down to the under fluff, especially if you can find a good typy Black to use. Once your under fluff is good, you can go to a White.

 

[thedragonlady]

I'm not answering! But just curious-- are yours gold or silver based? I ran into a lady at my last show and she had the whitest whites I have ever seen and she had some how bred them all over to the silver based gene-- so no way to leak out any gold or get a brassy color. Or at least-- THAT is what she said. Thought it was interesting, but had no idea how she went about doing it.

Those were recessive Whites which are pure for White. I'd get rid of any that show brass , and breed to a Black to bring in recessive white, just one time.Breed those chicks together, and keep any Whites that result from those Black to Black breedings. They should be pure White, not yellow tinged.

For heaven's sake, do NOT use any Black with red or gold in the hackle, or wing bows, or Blue under fluff for this project.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

I used a White cock bird as I was unable to find any colored Silkie males who had the type I wanted to make my Buffs.There simply were no true Buff Silkies at that time. I bought Lester specifically to make those Buffs, knowing that he came from a long line of very good whites.When I saw the type he was stamping, I tried him in small settings on the other colors.Lots of the older breeders used whites on their colored birds to keep TYPE. Breeding for BBS is a different genetic matter.. I had no desire to play with the blue gene, as I wanted real blacks to the roots. Too many blacks nowadays showing blue underfluff.

I never hatched more than about 10,or 15 eggs at a time in my other colors. When you get Whites from colored breedings, you clean out the yellow gene, and better the type. Your recessive white birds will not show yellow.Your colored birds will have better type.Simple enough for me.

At one point, whites were the only recognized variety, and blacks came next. Whites had the best type for a long, long time, and at that time, to improve type, you needed to use whites. As the coloured birds' type became better and better, breeding back to white became not only less needed, but less desirable, as you would not know what all genes a specific white would bring into the mix.

If you KNOW what genes the white carries, that can change the story. For example, if you hatch a white from a blue/splash pen, you know htat the bird will carry at least one copy of blue. Likewise, if a white came from a grey pen, you know that it is silver gened, etc. But any random white from a white pen, or purchased, you don't know, without experimentation, what it carries other than white.

Now, there are excellent type birds in all recognized varieties, and when breeding in a new variety, you want to use the variety that brings in the least amount of traits that will need to be bred out. So, if you are wanting to work on mottled, or chocolate/khaki, or paint, or lavender (now recognized), breeding to black is/was the desired choice. But you need to be using blacks with good type, otherwise you may get the variety into the breed, but the type won't be there.