Silkie sexing 🥲

[BlueTheBrahma]

I kind of thought I’d never need to post another sexing thread again. But wait - silkies. After getting a new cock I hatched four. All are different colours, an odd surprise since I crossed a white to paint hens! I’m gonna post each one on a message. All 12ish weeks
Thanks

Just realised that I didn’t specify that I was asking about sex guesses! I thought I might just clarify that the genetics are less of a mystery to me, the sex is confusing me.

 

[wrathsfarm]

Just realised that I didn’t specify that I was asking about sex guesses! I thought I might just clarify that the genetics are less of a mystery to me, the sex is confusing me.

The thread title states it...but I'm loving the genetics info of it also.

 

[NatJ]

Just realised that I didn’t specify that I was asking about sex guesses! I thought I might just clarify that the genetics are less of a mystery to me, the sex is confusing me.

I'm so bad at sexing Silkies that I don't even bother to guess, but someone tagged me to ask about the genetics, so that's what I responded to

 

[NatJ]

One of two single combs that hatched, strange because the cock seems pure bred, he’s good quality anyway. The comb has no serrations and is just one small semi circle.

I've seen a few combs that were gentically pea/single and looked like that. The lack of serrations is the main difference I have noticed between them and single combs.

But the rose comb gene, that Silkies are supposed to have, is definitely missing in that bird. That means the father and the mother must be carrying the not-rose gene.

The other single comb, bigger comb with serrations.

That definitely sounds like a single comb, so each parent must be carrying the not-pea comb gene.

I'm suspecting the parents may both be RrPp (rose comb and pea comb gene, carrying the recessives for not-rose and not-pea.) But there is a chance one parent is that way, and the other might just be Rrpp (rose comb carrying not-rose, no pea comb gene at all.)

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

I've seen a few combs that were gentically pea/single and looked like that. The lack of serrations is the main difference I have noticed between them and single combs.

But the rose comb gene, that Silkies are supposed to have, is definitely missing in that bird. That means the father and the mother must be carrying the not-rose gene.


That definitely sounds like a single comb, so each parent must be carrying the not-pea comb gene.

I'm suspecting the parents may both be RrPp (rose comb and pea comb gene, carrying the recessives for not-rose and not-pea.) But there is a chance one parent is that way, and the other might just be Rrpp (rose comb carrying not-rose, no pea comb gene at all.)

Yes, I think this is the only option for single combs to come from walnut comb parents. It’s a pity that both sides should carry the fault, plus this fault is really two as it’s controlled by two genes. Funny I got no pea or rose combs, but I only have five I guess. I suspect the breeder of the cock was working on some funny new colours and bred in a different breed somewhere high up the tree, and these recessive genes have slipped through, this allows me to have all these lovely colours though.

 

[NatJ]

Yes, I think this is the only option for single combs to come from walnut comb parents. It’s a pity that both sides should carry the fault, plus this fault is really two as it’s controlled by two genes. Funny I got no pea or rose combs, but I only have five I guess.

There is also the question of what a rose or pea comb even looks like when it's on a crested Silkie. A crest can change the shape of just about any comb type. For example, Cream Legbars have a crest and a single comb, but the comb is often folded back and forth or crinkled in odd ways.

I've read an article saying that Silkies are "supposed" to have a rose comb (genetically speaking) and it is just supposed to LOOK like a walnut. The article has quite a few photos of silkies that are labelled as having rose combs (RR or Rr), but they do not look much like the rose combs we expect to see in a Wyandotte or Hamburg or other common breeds that have rose combs.

The article is here:
https://www.chickencolours.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/What-Wattles-lowres.pdf
If that link doesn't work, try this page:
https://www.chickencolours.com/index.php/articles/
The article is titled "What Wattles?" (The author is saying that beardless Silkies are supposed to have wattles, which requires they not have two copies of the pea comb gene. In this case, I'm more interested in the illustrations of the rose combs, since you might or might not have Silkies with rose comb and no pea comb gene.)

I suspect the breeder of the cock was working on some funny new colours and bred in a different breed somewhere high up the tree, and these recessive genes have slipped through, this allows me to have all these lovely colours though.

That is a definite possibility.

But any rose comb breed is prone to having some birds with the not-rose gene. That is partly because they look the same regardless of whether they have one rose comb gene or two, so you would have to test mate them to find all the ones carrying the not-rose gene.

But it is also because roosters with two rose comb genes are less fertile than roosters with just one rose comb gene. So the roosters carrying the not-rose gene will be siring more than their fair share of the offspring, making sure the not-rose gene is well distributed. This makes it even less likely that someone will have a flock of true-breeding rose comb chickens, unless they did test mate and remove all carriers of the not-rose gene (which is a big job for a flock of any size).

Links to a few studies about rose combs and fertility, some dating back to the 1960s and some more recent:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119433622
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119433634
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3386170/

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

There is also the question of what a rose or pea comb even looks like when it's on a crested Silkie. A crest can change the shape of just about any comb type. For example, Cream Legbars have a crest and a single comb, but the comb is often folded back and forth or crinkled in odd ways.

I've read an article saying that Silkies are "supposed" to have a rose comb (genetically speaking) and it is just supposed to LOOK like a walnut. The article has quite a few photos of silkies that are labelled as having rose combs (RR or Rr), but they do not look much like the rose combs we expect to see in a Wyandotte or Hamburg or other common breeds that have rose combs.

The article is here:
https://www.chickencolours.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/What-Wattles-lowres.pdf
If that link doesn't work, try this page:
https://www.chickencolours.com/index.php/articles/
The article is titled "What Wattles?" (The author is saying that beardless Silkies are supposed to have wattles, which requires they not have two copies of the pea comb gene. In this case, I'm more interested in the illustrations of the rose combs, since you might or might not have Silkies with rose comb and no pea comb gene.)


That is a definite possibility.

But any rose comb breed is prone to having some birds with the not-rose gene. That is partly because they look the same regardless of whether they have one rose comb gene or two, so you would have to test mate them to find all the ones carrying the not-rose gene.

But it is also because roosters with two rose comb genes are less fertile than roosters with just one rose comb gene. So the roosters carrying the not-rose gene will be siring more than their fair share of the offspring, making sure the not-rose gene is well distributed. This makes it even less likely that someone will have a flock of true-breeding rose comb chickens, unless they did test mate and remove all carriers of the not-rose gene (which is a big job for a flock of any size).

Links to a few studies about rose combs and fertility, some dating back to the 1960s and some more recent:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119433622
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119433634
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3386170/

The single comb of sparrow is folded, much like a CCLB. Thanks, I didn’t know this about silkie combs, I suppose that’s why there’s no pea combs, if the pea comb gene isn’t a factor. I believe silkie combs are supposed to be concave also, like a rose comb, rather than convex like other walnut/cushion combs, so it makes sense.

 

[NatJ]

The single comb of sparrow is folded, much like a CCLB. Thanks, I didn’t know this about silkie combs, I suppose that’s why there’s no pea combs, if the pea comb gene isn’t a factor. I believe silkie combs are supposed to be concave also, like a rose comb, rather than convex like other walnut/cushion combs, so it makes sense.

From what I've read, I'm sure that some Silkies do have the pea comb gene and some do not. I can't be positive about yours, but I suspect that Tangerine may have the pea comb gene (looks like a single comb with no points), and that would mean at least one parent with the pea comb gene as well.

I've had some mixed-breed crosses of pea/single (P/p+) that showed quite a variety of comb shapes, including some that looked like single combs with no points. Here are two examples:

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

From what I've read, I'm sure that some Silkies do have the pea comb gene and some do not. I can't be positive about yours, but I suspect that Tangerine may have the pea comb gene (looks like a single comb with no points), and that would mean at least one parent with the pea comb gene as well.

I've had some mixed-breed crosses of pea/single (P/p+) that showed quite a variety of comb shapes, including some that looked like single combs with no points. Here are two examples:

View attachment 3911065
View attachment 3911066

Ah thanks, I didn’t know pea combs sometimes appeared as a single blade, I thought it was always three. But I guess that explains the difference between the two ‘single’ combs perhaps.

 

[NatJ]

Ah thanks, I didn’t know pea combs sometimes appeared as a single blade, I thought it was always three. But I guess that explains the difference between the two ‘single’ combs perhaps.

For the mixes I've seen, at least for the split P/p+ (pea and not-pea heterozygotes), I think the actual three-part combs were less common than fat single blades that might or might not have a little bit of extra bumpiness on the sides.

Of course different mixes might have very different results. The ones I saw and photographed are heavy on Old English Game Bantam, with the pea comb gene coming from Easter Egger Bantam and Dark Cornish Bantam, all tracing back to hatchery stock a few generations ago.