Silkie thread!

[SilverSilkie]

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ty so much for the help so if the black silkie has chicks they will be white thats weird

Only if 1) they carry recessive white (as the previous example would provide) and 2) if paired to another bird that is or carries recessive white. If paired to a recessive white, the odds are 50/50 of white chicks; if paired to another carrier of recessive white, the odds are only 25% for a recessive white bird. Of the remaining quarters, 25% will not have recessive white at all and the remaining 50% will have one copy of recessive white. You will not be able to distinguish between these birds.

exactely, but I only gived explanation to become white birds from the F1 breeded together (and that was that 25% of phenotype whites, the rest was black (carrier and not) and partridges (gold when based on gold) from a "pure" cross Black X white.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
okay i kinda got that.. still learning

so i need to bring in splash and blue to delute the black gene in my birds.? to get those kind of offspring?
if i bring a splash would i get blue offspring?

Simple said :
E/E bl+/bl+ = Black
E/E Bl/bl+ = Blue
E/E Bl/Bl = Splash

As you can see Black, Blue and Splash have here the same ground-color => E/E

E/E = Extended Black
bl+/bl+ = NO dilution of black-pigment = Black
Bl/bl+ = 1 doses diluting black-pigment = Blue
Bl/Bl = 2 doses diluting black-pigment = Splash

So when you cross a Black (E/E bl+/bl+) X a Splash (E/E Bl/Bl) you become 100% Blue (E/E Bl/bl+)

This is where you get confusing. Most of us call black pigment BASE, not GROUND, reserving Ground for red/gold pigment or its silver counterpart. Also, not all black or blue or splash silkies are E based; many are e^b based; Dr. Okimoto said that most exhibition-bred black silkies in the US are probably E^R based, but htat was anumber of years ago.

Anyways, I agree that you are spot-on with black X splash giving 100% blues.

Black X blue will give 50% of each.

Blue X splash will give 50% each.

Blue X blue will give 25% black, 50% blue and 25% splash.

With the exception of splash X black, all the percentages can vary dramatically in smaller numbers of hatchings. The more that you hatch, the closer the probabilities come to matching the reality.

 

[SilverSilkie]

Quote:
The basic color-genetics is not really so difficult to understand.
There only 2 color-pigments, black and red and the absence of both = white.
There are only 5 ground-colors.
All five are based on gold or on Silver. Since this is sex-linked there are 5 (ground-colors) X 3 based on possibilities for male => s+/s+ (=gold based) or S/S (=Silver based) or S/s+ (=Golden based). for females this is more simple they can be only 5 (ground-color) X 2 based on possibilities => s+/- (gold based) or S/- (Silver based).
There are only 18 genes to count with (our alphabeth count 26) and there are only a few rules to know as Dominant genes (always with a with Capital => E) and recessive genes (always written with a normal letter => eb).
Keep in mind sexual reproduction as need for every gene 1 allel from papa and 1 allel from mama to come together in a new gene. All genes together give a new subject. Color-genes are only a little part of the totality.
After comes in some more "fine-tuning" knowledge but for the basics this was you have to know.

All started with G.J.Mendel (1822-1884)

I think some of the confusion is that some of the folks asking are kids. Not sure what level in school they are, but they may not have gotten to genetics yet, and their school may or may not cover it well. The other confusing thing is terminology--the difference between allele and gene is not always something that people who are not into genetics understand readily--simply because they haven't been exposed to it. Henk's http://kippenjungle.nl/basisEN.htm#basisEN is an excellent starting point.

Again I agre with you. Henks chicken colorcalculater is where also I started the genetics. But not make it to difficult. A (color) gene consist out of 2 alleles (exception when sex-linked).
A color-gene for example E/E consist out of 2 alleles the "E" and the second "E" separated by a "/" to make a separation only.

Sonoran, you are a woman with much knowledge and a passion for chickens, for Silkies. Can you do me a favour and look this page I made and tell me your opinion on it : https://sites.google.com/site/colorgenesandfeathers/

 

[Evelle]

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You cannot get splash if one parent is black. Both parents must carry blue, meaning that they must be either blue or splash. Splash is two copies of the blue gene: if they inherit one copy from each parent they will be splash.

ohhh okay

thank you

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

sagersilkies :

thank u so really if u know the silkies is dominate white there is no point breeding them to any color other then white

Dominant white has a lot of other uses, although most are not varieties seen in silkies. Red pyle, golden neck and a few other varieties require dominant white as a part of their genetic recipe. One copy of dominant white covers black pigment, but does not cover red pigment; that requires a second copy of dominant white. Dominant white is a very leaky gene; recessive white is much less so. So, while a bird may be dominant white, pigment can leak through--sometimes a LOT. Paints are thought to be dominant white--the big question is whether it is simple dominant white or a new allele of dominant white. There are already several dominant white alleles: I (white), i+ (not-white), I^S (smoky) and I^D (dun), That is not the order of dominance.​

 

[SilverSilkie]

Quote:
Dominant white has a lot of other uses, although most are not varieties seen in silkies. Red pyle, golden neck and a few other varieties require dominant white as a part of their genetic recipe. One copy of dominant white covers black pigment, but does not cover red pigment; that requires a second copy of dominant white. Dominant white is a very leaky gene; recessive white is much less so. So, while a bird may be dominant white, pigment can leak through--sometimes a LOT. Paints are thought to be dominant white--the big question is whether it is simple dominant white or a new allele of dominant white. There are already several dominant white alleles: I (white), i+ (not-white), I^S (smoky) and I^D (dun), That is not the order of dominance.

I see you not reached my next posts, was also what I was writing ;-)

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
I believe the offspring from the dominant white would produce the other color when bred.

That's how it works with my plecos anyway. I've been breeding unique fish for several years.

??!! fish are not birds as birds are not mammals !!??

True, but inheritance works the same for all diploid organisms. (Diploid means that the organism's chromosomes come in sets of 2: one inherited from the mother, the other from the father.)

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

sagersilkies :

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Hold your horses ... this not go as simple as that.
To say it simple (but it is more complicated) for paints you need the gene I^P.
I wrote "paints" under "mystery" colorations.

You want to go from degree 6 directely to degree 1

what u mean degree 6 to 1​

Go straight from elementary school to college, without bothering to go through middle school and high school.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

sagersilkies :

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I not have them anymore. Gived them all away to a friend in Italy => www.moroseta.com

im goin to italy next year for a trip maybe i could stop buy and get some eggs or something​

I do not know enought about Canadian importation of eggs to say whether importing them from Europe would be easy or difficult. I do know that you can import them from the US fairly easily. Pretty sure it is the same with birds. Anyways, in either case, unless you are looking for very specific lines, you are probably better getting your start from US paint breeders--it is just a lot simpler, and the distance and travel time for the eggs or birds is much, much less.

 

[Shayna]

Quote:
??!! fish are not birds as birds are not mammals !!??

True, but inheritance works the same for all diploid organisms. (Diploid means that the organism's chromosomes come in sets of 2: one inherited from the mother, the other from the father.)

I was just branching off of what little bit of genetics experience I have so far. From what I do still recall in learning genetics, there wasn't "fish genetics" or "chicken genetics" it was all discussed on a general level which lead me to believe that most genetics work about the same. But... I didn't take any science majors either.

I will learn as I go!