Silkie thread!

[SilverSilkie]

Quote:
??!! fish are not birds as birds are not mammals !!??

True, but inheritance works the same for all diploid organisms. (Diploid means that the organism's chromosomes come in sets of 2: one inherited from the mother, the other from the father.)

Here I intended for the differance in sex-linked genes are the opposit in birds and mammals. For fishes I not know

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
I disagree. THere is no way to know what colour the chicks will be--it really depends on all the colour and pattern genes they have that are prevented from expressing by recessive white--every one could give a different result. Many black silkies are not E based; you can make a black bird on just about any E-allele except wheaten. THere are a lot of US silkies that have silver; I do not know if there is a predominance of silver or gold birds here--just that both are common.

Yes of course all genes have to be taken in consideration. Was why I said there are 18 color-genes.
In this particular case I was speaking of the F2 (maybe you not readed all posts).
I tryed to keep the explanation as simple as possible to explain a cross between a common Black and a common white.
What I intended with the chicks out of a cross Black X white was that they are all carrier of 1 allel of the recessive white C+/c when the white parent was a recessive white c/c
Whatever other genes are present in a recessive white the c/c is epistatic on all => white phenotype.
Whatever is the groundcolor of a Black melanized or not when the phenotype is Black we call it a Black (the heritance will be different when the ground-color is not E/E than with a melanized eb/eb or a E/eb but that was not the point)
When after crossed these chicks (carrier of 1 allel recessive white C+/c) will result in +- 25% recessive white F2 because these becomed 1 allel "c" from father and 1 allel "c" of mother => c/c on whatever groundcolor with whatever other color-genes.
I live in Europe and the change a Silkie is based on gold instead of Silver (when not visible in the phenotype) is much bigger. I can't speak for US.
I know you have a big knowledge of the color-genetics but I not understand your last statement : "I do not know if there is a predominance of silver or gold birds", S is Dominant on s+ and in roosters the S/s+ result mostely in a golden phenotype. Or did you intend something else?

Sorry if I was not explicite enough.

Fancy (and obviously unclear) way of saying that I was not sure whether it is more common to find gold or silver in US silkies. When I first got into silkies, almost all white chicks had white to silvery down--that seemed to be pretty universal among all the breeders I spoke with, with the silver defnitely indicating that the bird carried silver, white being a possibility of either. In the last few years I have heard about yellow-downed white chicks, and many seem to think they are more common than white or silver downed ones. I do know that during this time buffs and partridges have become much more popular and common, and they are all gold. And greys seem to have declined in popularity until the last year or so. So, I really do not know which ground colour is more common here in silkies.

I would have to say that in my experience, I think E based US silkies are pretty rare. The very best Black lines probably are E or E^R based, but most are probably not. And if the bird has any other base, chances of the offspring being black when crossed to a white is pretty low.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
I think some of the confusion is that some of the folks asking are kids. Not sure what level in school they are, but they may not have gotten to genetics yet, and their school may or may not cover it well. The other confusing thing is terminology--the difference between allele and gene is not always something that people who are not into genetics understand readily--simply because they haven't been exposed to it. Henk's http://kippenjungle.nl/basisEN.htm#basisEN is an excellent starting point.

Again I agre with you. Henks chicken colorcalculater is where also I started the genetics. But not make it to difficult. A (color) gene consist out of 2 alleles (exception when sex-linked).
A color-gene for example E/E consist out of 2 alleles the "E" and the second "E" separated by a "/" to make a separation only.

Sonoran, you are a woman with much knowledge and a passion for chickens, for Silkies. Can you do me a favour and look this page I made and tell me your opinion on it : https://sites.google.com/site/colorgenesandfeathers/

will do

 

[sager:)silkies]

holy crap i was gone for an 1 30 mins and i just missed lots of learning so much i just read and went in my head hurts

 

[sager:)silkies]

Quote:
im goin to italy next year for a trip maybe i could stop buy and get some eggs or something

I do not know enought about Canadian importation of eggs to say whether importing them from Europe would be easy or difficult. I do know that you can import them from the US fairly easily. Pretty sure it is the same with birds. Anyways, in either case, unless you are looking for very specific lines, you are probably better getting your start from US paint breeders--it is just a lot simpler, and the distance and travel time for the eggs or birds is much, much less.

would u happen to have paint silkies sonoran

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
True, but inheritance works the same for all diploid organisms. (Diploid means that the organism's chromosomes come in sets of 2: one inherited from the mother, the other from the father.)

I was just branching off of what little bit of genetics experience I have so far. From what I do still recall in learning genetics, there wasn't "fish genetics" or "chicken genetics" it was all discussed on a general level which lead me to believe that most genetics work about the same. But... I didn't take any science majors either.

I will learn as I go!

One of the huge differences between mammals and birds is gender related. In mammals, the gender of the offspring comes from the father; in birds it comes from the mother. For some reason that seems to be a huge stumbling block to a lot of folks. Also, chickens have a HUGE number of chromosome pairs compared with many other creatures that have a wide-spread interest in their genetics.

I know nothing about fish genetics; don't know a lot about fish, for that matter.

 

[sager:)silkies]

thank u silver silkie and Sonoran Silkies this has helped alot

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
True, but inheritance works the same for all diploid organisms. (Diploid means that the organism's chromosomes come in sets of 2: one inherited from the mother, the other from the father.)

Here I intended for the differance in sex-linked genes are the opposit in birds and mammals. For fishes I not know

me either. Since dominant white is not a sex-linked gene (at least in birds--no idea in fish), that did not even occur to me, lol.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

sagersilkies :

Quote:
I do not know enought about Canadian importation of eggs to say whether importing them from Europe would be easy or difficult. I do know that you can import them from the US fairly easily. Pretty sure it is the same with birds. Anyways, in either case, unless you are looking for very specific lines, you are probably better getting your start from US paint breeders--it is just a lot simpler, and the distance and travel time for the eggs or birds is much, much less.

would u happen to have paint sonoran​

I guess I need to update my signature

 

[SilverSilkie]

Quote:
Yes of course all genes have to be taken in consideration. Was why I said there are 18 color-genes.
In this particular case I was speaking of the F2 (maybe you not readed all posts).
I tryed to keep the explanation as simple as possible to explain a cross between a common Black and a common white.
What I intended with the chicks out of a cross Black X white was that they are all carrier of 1 allel of the recessive white C+/c when the white parent was a recessive white c/c
Whatever other genes are present in a recessive white the c/c is epistatic on all => white phenotype.
Whatever is the groundcolor of a Black melanized or not when the phenotype is Black we call it a Black (the heritance will be different when the ground-color is not E/E than with a melanized eb/eb or a E/eb but that was not the point)
When after crossed these chicks (carrier of 1 allel recessive white C+/c) will result in +- 25% recessive white F2 because these becomed 1 allel "c" from father and 1 allel "c" of mother => c/c on whatever groundcolor with whatever other color-genes.
I live in Europe and the change a Silkie is based on gold instead of Silver (when not visible in the phenotype) is much bigger. I can't speak for US.
I know you have a big knowledge of the color-genetics but I not understand your last statement : "I do not know if there is a predominance of silver or gold birds", S is Dominant on s+ and in roosters the S/s+ result mostely in a golden phenotype. Or did you intend something else?

Sorry if I was not explicite enough.

Fancy (and obviously unclear) way of saying that I was not sure whether it is more common to find gold or silver in US silkies. When I first got into silkies, almost all white chicks had white to silvery down--that seemed to be pretty universal among all the breeders I spoke with, with the silver defnitely indicating that the bird carried silver, white being a possibility of either. In the last few years I have heard about yellow-downed white chicks, and many seem to think they are more common than white or silver downed ones. I do know that during this time buffs and partridges have become much more popular and common, and they are all gold. And greys seem to have declined in popularity until the last year or so. So, I really do not know which ground colour is more common here in silkies.

I would have to say that in my experience, I think E based US silkies are pretty rare. The very best Black lines probably are E or E^R based, but most are probably not. And if the bird has any other base, chances of the offspring being black when crossed to a white is pretty low.

So if I understand good the US black Silkies are eb or e+ melanized, WOW. This is completely new to me ! Yesterday I spook with Sigrid about Italian breeds, almost completely black except for the Silver wingtriangle and she was a little surprised also !
I know a E/E or ER/ER bird need Ml to can become a complete black bird (difference in both is the green glow on the chest). All other "ground-colors" eWh/eWh, eb/eb and e+/e+ have a wingtriangle (duckwings) so you say the black US Silkies show no sign of a duckwing (gold or Silver) ?

I like to know more about this if possible.