Silkies with Crooked Beaks....questions?

[hinkjc]

If it is the genetic type, there is a good chance other chicks in the same hatch may carry it and not show a cross beak. But when bred back to a sibling or another carrier of the gene will throw it in its offspring. It is very difficult to get rid of completely unless you cull hard.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

When you are getting a fair number of them from a wide range of breeders, chances of them all being genetic are slim in my opinion. Not to discount that genetics could have bearing inin SOME of the cases. If all the crossbeaks were coming from one breeder, or from one set of parents, the chances of it being genetic increase, but from unrelated parents?

The year I hatched a number of unrelated chicks with crossbeaks was the first time I used mash chick feed (a very powdery one). I changed back to crumbles, and while I cannot say I never get a crossbeaked chick, it is not more like one per breeding season--and the last two years I have hatched at least double each year more than the previous year. So a difference of something like 1 out of 10 when I used mash and now have about 1 out of 200. To me that seems to be significant. Mind you, the year I had the most crossbeaks they were completely unrelated to each other--different breeds.

I've done a fair amount of research on crossed beak (aka tweaked beak and scissor beak), and based upon what I have read, as well as my own experience, crossbeak that shows at hatching is almost certainly genetic. Crossbeak that shows up 2-3 weeks later can be genetic, but is as likely to be a result of injury as of genetics. Pecking something too hard too often when the chick is young and the beak is still soft, or food impacted between the inner edge of the beak and the outer edge seem to be the most common causes of injury. (Sorry, I do not know the names for these parts of the beak, but if you pry a bird's mouth open, you will see what I mean.)

 

[Smoky73]

Quote:
yeah, thats kinda what I am trying to say, if it was genetic, wouldn't it be present from the start almost rather than showing up weeks later? I have a rhode island red hen that has a SERIOUS crossbeak, so serious, I cannot cut it back far enough to fix it, but, she eats and drinks just fine. She does end up with an eye infection every year on that side (nostril plugged and sinus swelling etc.)

 

[silkieluver_07]

Quote:
I have a rosecomb pullet that not has a partially open beak/crossbeak. I noticed tht the other chicks were pecking her beak when she was a couple days old and the pecking took off the black protective coating off her beak. We seperated her and now half of her beak is black and fine while the other is whitish and crossed. I'll have to upload a picture then.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
yeah, thats kinda what I am trying to say, if it was genetic, wouldn't it be present from the start almost rather than showing up weeks later? I have a rhode island red hen that has a SERIOUS crossbeak, so serious, I cannot cut it back far enough to fix it, but, she eats and drinks just fine. She does end up with an eye infection every year on that side (nostril plugged and sinus swelling etc.)

Well, there are a lot of things that are genetic that do not show up at first (for eample, adult plumage can be vastly different than immature plumage), so that doesn't rule it out.

 

[SundownWaterfowl]

I did have a chick that hurt its beak somehow when it was hatching, cut the soft spot on the egg somehow. Anyway, as it grew, it had this dent in it upper beak, and the dent keeps growing out, as the birds beak grows.

 

[SundownWaterfowl]

Quote:
yeah, thats kinda what I am trying to say, if it was genetic, wouldn't it be present from the start almost rather than showing up weeks later? I have a rhode island red hen that has a SERIOUS crossbeak, so serious, I cannot cut it back far enough to fix it, but, she eats and drinks just fine. She does end up with an eye infection every year on that side (nostril plugged and sinus swelling etc.)

I always was told if it shows at hatch its incubation problems, if it shows up weeks later it is genetic because something about the growth plates growing wrong, or a vit def.

I have been adding Vitamins to their water for the past week or so to see if it could possibly be a vit def. So well see on that.


Last year I also tried mash, the Nutrena mash. And I did have quite a few cross beaks out of my own birds from that stuff. Switched over to 20% crumbles and have only had 1 so far this year.

 

[Smoky73]

Quote:
yeah, thats kinda what I am trying to say, if it was genetic, wouldn't it be present from the start almost rather than showing up weeks later? I have a rhode island red hen that has a SERIOUS crossbeak, so serious, I cannot cut it back far enough to fix it, but, she eats and drinks just fine. She does end up with an eye infection every year on that side (nostril plugged and sinus swelling etc.)

I always was told if it shows at hatch its incubation problems, if it shows up weeks later it is genetic because something about the growth plates growing wrong, or a vit def.

I have been adding Vitamins to their water for the past week or so to see if it could possibly be a vit def. So well see on that.


Last year I also tried mash, the Nutrena mash. And I did have quite a few cross beaks out of my own birds from that stuff. Switched over to 20% crumbles and have only had 1 so far this year.

What feed are you feeding to get the crossbeaks? I feed the Nutrena grower I think, rarely started. I try to get the Purina start & Grow when I can. Maybe I should try to get the Purina Game Bird starter?

 

[SundownWaterfowl]

Quote:
I always was told if it shows at hatch its incubation problems, if it shows up weeks later it is genetic because something about the growth plates growing wrong, or a vit def.

I have been adding Vitamins to their water for the past week or so to see if it could possibly be a vit def. So well see on that.


Last year I also tried mash, the Nutrena mash. And I did have quite a few cross beaks out of my own birds from that stuff. Switched over to 20% crumbles and have only had 1 so far this year.

What feed are you feeding to get the crossbeaks? I feed the Nutrena grower I think, rarely started. I try to get the Purina start & Grow when I can. Maybe I should try to get the Purina Game Bird starter?

I've had one bird this year with a crossbeak from my birds. Several from the shipped eggs from several breeders. Last year I was feeding Nutrena mash and had several crossbeaks from my birds (im 100% certain that its from the food). Since I switched over to Dumor 20% I have had 1 crossbeak this year, thats it. So im sure nutrena caused the problems last year.

 

[Smoky73]

hmm, I can't get Dumor out here but think I will try to keep using Purina for my birds.