sleepy hen, any thoughts?

[Sakmeht]

My EE went through a hard molt this past fall. I noticed that she had started, and then after maybe a week or so she started standing around puffed up like your hen. She still ate normally, but would walk a little stiffly. Didn't run at all. Sat or stood in a corner all puffed up. This went on for 2 or 3 days, then she snapped out of it and at the same time lost almost every feather on her poor little body. I think her feathers were just loosening up all at once and it was stressing her out. I don't know if that's the problem with your girl, but I guess you never know. I'll be interested to see what happens.

 

[casportpony]

You could try giving her some higher protein food and see if that helps. I use 27% turkey crumble and mix with water, they seem to love that. If you can't get turkey starter, use Purina Game Bird Crumble, it's 30% protein. Mine also like scrambled eggs, mealworms and crickets.

 

[casportpony]

Okay, that's good to know! Thank you. I also picked up a bottle of Wazine 17 too in case I couldn't get the other in them, but then I read on the bottle that it's not approved for chickens whose eggs are to be consumed. So are you not supposed to use that at all?

I don't think they have worms anyway. I really scrounged through different poop piles and didn't see any at all. I know they still could, but...

Should I give them some of the buttermilk and scrambled egg today?

I had my Dad come down last night, he used to raise chickens when he was younger. We both thought her crop felt normal and fairly close to the others we compared her to. So I don't think she has an impacted or sour crop. I'm basically ruling that out.

So, from what I can tell her only symptoms are that she stands around puffed up way more than the others. And her poop is dark green with white instead of the more brown and white. It's not runny at all though and I'd say at least half of her poops are on the small side..

She is still drinking, I saw her eat out of the food box, she runs to me with the others when I go out, she gobbles up BOSS, yogurt, etc. She jumps, walks, runs fine, she preens herself and yesterday I saw her cleaning the beak/face of the rooster and one of the other hens. So I don't know what the deal is. Hopefully the dusting will help. Can moulting stress them out a little? Plus I think she's lower in the pecking order. I think this will be day five since I noticed her doing it. I'll see if anything changes today.

I think it can stress them out a lot!

 

[capow21]

My EE went through a hard molt this past fall. I noticed that she had started, and then after maybe a week or so she started standing around puffed up like your hen. She still ate normally, but would walk a little stiffly. Didn't run at all. Sat or stood in a corner all puffed up. This went on for 2 or 3 days, then she snapped out of it and at the same time lost almost every feather on her poor little body. I think her feathers were just loosening up all at once and it was stressing her out. I don't know if that's the problem with your girl, but I guess you never know. I'll be interested to see what happens.

It would be nice if that's all that's wrong with this one. Her and a RIR are the last two to moult. I was looking through some pics on my camera and on Jan. 14 these two don't appear to have lost too many feathers, so I'd say they have been moulting for about three weeks. The RIR didn't seem to lose as many feathers as this one and her feathers are coming in faster, I think. I think thsi Wyandotte might have lost the most out of all of them. She still has mostly pin feathers on her head and neck and her tail and butt feathers are still growing. She shook this morning and a few feathers flew out, so apparently she is still losing a few also.

 

[capow21]

You could try giving her some higher protein food and see if that helps. I use 27% turkey crumble and mix with water, they seem to love that. If you can't get turkey starter, use Purina Game Bird Crumble, it's 30% protein. Mine also like scrambled eggs, mealworms and crickets.

I DO need to switch their food. Our food selection here is kind of lame. I've been learning about their diet needs the past couple of weeks. When they were chicks I had them on Alber's All Purpose Poultry Crumble. The only "chick starter" was medicated and 6/10 of my chicks were vaccinated, so I didn't want that. So this was basically the only option in my area. Then when they started laying I switched to Payback Layer Pellets that were 17% protein and 3.5% calcium. They didn't like the pellets as much and I also learned that my Rooster didn't need 3.5% calcium in his feed and then in the fall/early winter when they started laying less and some stopped to moult I realized they didn't need that much calcium either, so I switched back to the All-Purpose. It has 0.6-1.1% calcium and I always have the oyster shell, but then I noticed some of them eating feathers on the ground and researched that and some say that means they need more animal protein. So I just checked the label and realized the All-purpose only has 16% protein and none of the ingredients are animal protein. Only Soy protein as the sixth ingredient. So I'd like to get them all on something with more protein (containing an animal protein). I think I'm going to switch them to a game bird or turkey feed.

The Payback brand shows they have a 22% protein Turkey Grower with .75 -1.25% calcium or a 28% Turkey Starter with 1.00-1.5% calcium. Is 28% protein too much? I think the 22% would be good. Can they eat this all of the time year round? The Game Bird feeds of this brand have only 15-17% or protein and none have over 1.0% calcium, so I don't think that would be good.

 

[casportpony]

I have to do my chores before I answer the last post, thought I would share a way to get extra animal protein to your flock... Check your pet store for meat based dog or cat food, mine love it!

 

[dawg53]

I have to do my chores before I answer the last post, thought I would share a way to get extra animal protein to your flock... Check your pet store for meat based dog or cat food, mine love it!

Chop chop, get them chores done lol!!!!

 

[dawg53]

Gotta be careful with too much protein; it can cause gout. Catfood contains too much sodium, not good.

 

[capow21]

Okay, I have chores I need to do too.

So much to learn. It's fun though. Yes, I've read too much protein is a bad thing too. I was thinking I could mix a turkey/game bird feed with what I'm feeding them now too. Or, I have two feed boxes, so I could feed two different feeds and they could eat from which ever based of their needs. I wish I could find a feed available here that is 20% protein that has animal protein in it and not just soy.

 

[casportpony]

I DO need to switch their food. Our food selection here is kind of lame. I've been learning about their diet needs the past couple of weeks. When they were chicks I had them on Alber's All Purpose Poultry Crumble. The only "chick starter" was medicated and 6/10 of my chicks were vaccinated, so I didn't want that. So this was basically the only option in my area. Then when they started laying I switched to Payback Layer Pellets that were 17% protein and 3.5% calcium. They didn't like the pellets as much and I also learned that my Rooster didn't need 3.5% calcium in his feed and then in the fall/early winter when they started laying less and some stopped to moult I realized they didn't need that much calcium either, so I switched back to the All-Purpose. It has 0.6-1.1% calcium and I always have the oyster shell, but then I noticed some of them eating feathers on the ground and researched that and some say that means they need more animal protein. So I just checked the label and realized the All-purpose only has 16% protein and none of the ingredients are animal protein. Only Soy protein as the sixth ingredient. So I'd like to get them all on something with more protein (containing an animal protein). I think I'm going to switch them to a game bird or turkey feed.

The Payback brand shows they have a 22% protein Turkey Grower with .75 -1.25% calcium or a 28% Turkey Starter with 1.00-1.5% calcium. Is 28% protein too much? I think the 22% would be good. Can they eat this all of the time year round? The Game Bird feeds of this brand have only 15-17% or protein and none have over 1.0% calcium, so I don't think that would be good.

Dawg is right, too much protein can cause gout, but so can too much calcium, too little phosphorus or chronic dehydration, I think That said, *I* wouldn't switch switch to a diet that consisted of *just* turkey starter, but instead I might mix it with something else. Since mine free range, they eat bugs, cat food, grass, alfalfa, weeds, so I give them a choice of things to eat which include: hen scratch, a 13.5% protein gamebird mixed grain (Small Yellow Corn, R/C Oats, R/C Wheat, Red & White Milo, 28% Pigeon Pellets, Safflower, Trapper Peas, 21% Pigeon Protein Pellets, Small Black Oil Sunflower, Alfalfa Pellets, Charcoal.),16% lay pellets, rolled corn, oyster shell and 27% turkey crumble and/or Purina Flock Raiser (22% protein) Different birds prefer different things and this varies from day to day.

When I have one that not feeling well, it get's whatever it will eat. If that means all it wants to eat is 27% turkey, that's what it gets.

This is what my AAAP Avian Disease Manual says about gout:

[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]URINARY DISORDERS
UROLITHIASIS[/FONT][/FONT]
(Nephrosis, Renal Gout, Caged Layer Nephritis)
DEFINITION
Urolithiasis is an etiologically undefined condition seen particularly in caged laying hens and characterized
by blockage of one or both ureters by urate concretions with attendant atrophy of one or more lobes of the
kidney drained by the obstructed ureter.
OCCURRENCE
This condition has been recognized for years as a sporadic individual bird problem in laying flocks. More
recently urolithiasis has been described as a flock problem accounting for substantial mortality in caged layers
in England, the United States, and other countries throughout the world.
ETIOLOGY
A number of causative factors have been implicated in precipitating gouty deposits in kidneys, joints, or in
serosal membranes throughout the body. These include excessive dietary protein (30-40%), dietary calcium
excess (3% or greater), sodium bicarbonate toxicity, mycotoxins (oosporin, ochratoxin), vitamin A deficiency,
and nephrotropic strains of infectious bronchitis virus. However, the recently described urolithiasis in caged
layers appears to be associated with feeding relatively high calcium levels (3% or greater) during the pullet
grow-out period. Available phosphorus in the grower ration appears to be contributory in that urolithiasis is
enhanced when levels are below 0.6%. Many investigators feel that infectious bronchitis viruses are involved in
the process and there also is evidence that dietary electrolyte imbalances (low sodium and potassium, high
chlorides) may play a role. Finally, there are many diagnosticians who consider all current etiologic
explanations of this condition to be unsubstantiated, or at best, poorly supported hypotheses.
CLINICAL SIGNS
In many cases of urolithiasis there are no consistent clinical signs other than increasing mortality. Among
signs associated with the condition are depression, weight loss, and an inclination of affected birds to hide.
Roughened or thin eggshells may increase slightly in affected flocks and total egg production will decrease in
parallel to increasing mortality. Mortality may be gradual and persistent (2-4% per month) throughout the
productive lifetime of the hens or it may be more precipitous. Total mortality has approached 50% in severely
affected flocks.
LESIONS
The affected ureter is usually markedly distended by cylindrical concretions surrounded by thick mucus.
Although usually unilateral, both ureters may be involved. One or more lobes of the kidney drained by the
obstructed ureter often are severely atrophied. The opposite functional kidney may be hypertrophied. Many
affected hens will have white chalky material (urate deposits) on serosal membranes of various visceral organs.
DIAGNOSIS
Diagnosis is based on classical ureteral and renal lesions in most of dead birds necropsied. Observation of
urolithiasis in an occasional dead bird is indicative of a sporadic individual bird problem and is of little
consequence. Confirmation of etiologic factors noted above is usually difficult unless feed samples have been
retained for analysis.​

192

CONTROL
Until etiologic factors are better defined it is difficult to make specific recommendations. Of course it is
advisable to observe reasonable limits of calcium and available phosphorus in rations during grow-out and to
avoid electrolyte imbalance, mycotoxins, water deprivation, and so on.​

193