sneezing and nasal discharge - should I worry? UPDATE: FULL RECOVERY!!

[Wild Chicken]

Just an FYI......Coryza DOES NOT necessarily have a foul smell.......this has been posted many times

You need to be very careful about what you read here on these boards....yes, most of the time they can be very helpful, but sometimes (such as when your birds have a respiratory disease) there are very drastic measures advised by people that are, IMO, UNNECESSARY !!!!

I did have birds that had Coryza and I got in contact with the Chicken Dr., Dr. Peter Brown. He has been studying poultry for over 40 years and I ONLY take my advice from him.....after all, I would accept him as an expert over anyone else.

If you feel stumped by what's going on with your bird, and you are at your wit's end, PM me and I will get you his info.

 

[speckledhen]

It is true that sometimes, Coryza doesn't have an accompanying smell. Usually, it does, but not always. I admire and respect Dr. Brown tremendously, have known him for a couple of years, have spoken to him on the phone and through numerous emails; he has been a godsend a couple of times. The thing is that Doc will help you do what you want to do; for instance, if you want to treat a bird with a carrier disease and not cull, he will help you do that. He doesn't make those decisions for you and neither can anyone else. They cannot tell you to do it, or don't do it--in the end, you have to live with your decisions. Those are parts of your management philosophy that you must decide for yourself. I decided mine before I even got my first chicks, that I will not treat respiratory illness. Sounds drastic, but it's a valid way to manage your flock. If you choose to treat, then there are concessions you must make in the future, ethically, so as not to pass on whatever disease you treated your birds for. Different paths is all. My philosophy is spelled out here:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=129278

 

[Tailfeathers]

Quote:
Ok, so let me get this straight. The number of times something is posted on BYC Forums is now considered to be an authoritative source?

If you have authoritative information that states IC "DOES NOT necessarily have a foul smell", I (and I know many others) would appreciate you posting that.

The source I used to say what I did - and I should have stated the source so it did not appear as merely my opinion - is Page 278 of "The Chicken Health Handbook" which was written by Gail Damerow with the help of numerous veternarians. (Edited to add that this is the most complete and exhaustive book on the subject that I know of which is readily available to the average backyard flock owner.)

Coupled with that, I recently had something similar going on in my flock and I consulted with my original Welsummer breeder who has been breeding birds for 50 years. He said that IC will not only have a foul smell but was adamant that it's so horrible it will turn your stomach.

I most certainly agree with the statement "You need to be very careful about what you read here on these boards." I have said the same thing many times. So again, Wild Chicken if you have authoritative information to the contrary, I would appreciate you posting it here. Or is this just your opinion based on the "many times" that it has been posted on BYC?

I suppose, like anything, there is always an exception to the rule and I am certainly open to the possibility that there may be stages or variations of IC that do not have the reddish, foul-smelling discharge. However, I think most doctors, and most vets, would tell you to look for the obvious before looking for the extraordinary.

Furthermore, the OP did not mention anything about swelling of the face, watery eyes, eyes glued shut, etc. Therefore, I still maintain that it is unlikely you have a problem with IC.

As for the Peter Brown, I've talked with him and corresponded with him many times as well. He is undoubtedly a well respected source for information and I would agree with Speckledhen's comments about that.

God Bless,

 

[speckledhen]

Royce, I'm thinking that when the bird first contracts Coryza and becomes contagious is when the material I was reading said it may not have a smell, but I'm not sure. I'd expect as the infection continues, there would be a bad odor. If I can find that, I'll post the information. However, that is the first thing I'd take a whiff for, that rotting smell they say it has.

From The Poultry Guide online:
http://www.ruleworks.co.uk/poultry/Infectious-Coryza.htm

Infectious Coryza
An acute to chronic infectious respiratory disease of chickens, pheasants and guineas caused by a bacterium. Chickens 14 weeks of age and older are most susceptible and it increases with age.

Characterized by conjunctivitis; catarrhal inflammation of the mucous membrane of the upper respiratory tract (nostrils, sinuses, and upper windpipe); sneezing, swelling of the face and reduced egg production in hens. Transmission is bird to bird within a flock. Recovered birds remain carriers. Within an outbreak flock, contaminated feed and or water is probably the mode of spread. Birds risk exposure at poultry shows, bird swaps and live bird sales.

Clinical signs are swelling and puffiness around the face and wattles, thick stick discharge from the nostril (and a very offensive odor!) , labored breathing, and rales are the common clinical signs. There is a drop off in in feed and water consumption as well as egg production. The birds may have diarrhea and growing birds become stunted. Illness persists for several weeks, continuously if complicated with mycoplasma gallisepticum.

Treatment is usually sulfadimethoxine (Albon). If Albon fails or is not available, sulfamethazine, sulfamerazine or erythroymcin (Gallimycin) can be used as alternate treatments. If you have an outbreak, segregate birds by age and dispose of dead bird by incineration. All replacement birds on a "coryza endemic" farm should be vaccinated.​

 

[technodoll]

Good to know about Dr. Brown, thank you!

I guess the consensus is that YES chickens can get colds, but it's called respiratory infection instead? And there are different kinds as well as levels?

None of the documentation I've read so far (from links posted on this post and other research on google) has given me a firm answer as to what my hen could have. She's been sneezing for about 10 days now with a clear, non-odorous leaky discharge in one nostril. Stuff sticks like glue to her beak, making her breathing difficult.

I have caught her stretching her neck and opening her mouth a few times too.

Otherwise she seems absolutely normal.

I am pretty sure her nasal discharge started around the time she got infested with lice and nits - she was treated a week ago and has been clean since. It's the only "event" I can think of that might have caused this, as all other 15 chickens are absolutely fine.

Mystery!!

 

[Wild Chicken]

Ummmm......as my post states, my information came from Dr. Brown about Coryza and the lack of smell (regardless of what state it's in)...and as per the good DOCTOR, a chicken does not always remain a carrier and the meds that are listed are NOT meds that the DOCTOR had me use for my birds....and these kinds of attitudes are EXACTLY why he refuses to come on this board, says he'd flame

way too many people thinking they "know it all"!!!

And as an added FYI, Coryza DOES NOT cross over into the egg......

I'm glad that you choose to get your info from Gail's book, but I choose to take my information from a DOCTOR of POULTRY

...and one who has studied poultry in the field for 40 years. Spent about an hour on the phone, and multiple times on the internet, with the DOCTOR and my long line of questions.

To each his own

.

And if you want my "authoritative source", you can speak with him yourself

at https://www.firststatevetsupply.com/happenings/consultations-with-doc.html

And technodoll, yes they can get 'colds' and yes they are called respiratory disease instead. From talking with the DOCTOR, I mentioned a 'closed flock' to prevent disease from entering my flock again, and he laughed.........chicken diseases can come from pretty much anywhere: carrying it in on your shoes, wild birds, visitors......he's working with a gentleman right now that has always had a closed flock and he is now dealing with 4 RD's.......so like I said, everyone has an opinion on what THEY think you should do, but in the end, it's what's best for you!!

Stretching her neck and opening her mouth is a 'sign' of gapeworm. Search on that and see if her symptoms match. I just treated a few of mine for that......you'll get people on here saying that gapeworm is rare, not true again according to the DOCTOR.....

How did you treat the lice? If you dusted, she could just have an irritated airway, thus the sneezing and clear discharge.

If I can be of any further help, let me know!!

 

[technodoll]

Yes we dusted the 16 chickens using a commercial de-lousing product from the co-op, we made a little poofer with the foot of pantyhose... we breathed in a bunch of that junk and felt quite ill and had sore throats after but it went away after a few hours (thank goodness... we should apparently have worn masks!).

My girl was already sneezing a bit before the de-lousing though...

This afternoon I set down two baited rat traps outside the coop door, after I found a giant rat IN THE COOP EATING THEIR FOOD.

Came back an hour later and one of the traps had gone off - no rat in sight but there was a pool of blood on the cement tile so I assume it went off to die somewhere. Went in the house to reset the trap, came back and surprised another fat rat trying to get into the coop.

I think we have our work cut out for us

Stupid vermin. Stop making my birds sick!

 

[speckledhen]

Wild Chicken, you do know that Dr Brown is not a veterinarian, right? His doctorate is a phD in poultry science, but he is not a medical doctor. Just want to clear that up in case someone gets the wrong idea here. Again, as I stated, I have the utmost respect for Peter Brown and he knows I do.
I think you're getting way too heated about this. It's not "attitude" that anyone is showing, it's just giving reference material on the subject at hand. And there is alot of reference material to substantiate some of the facts presented here. These are not just fantasies the folks on this board thought up out of the blue. Let's cool down, shall we?

Gaping is not always gapeworm, either. They do that when they get a piece of food or straw stuck and are trying to ease it on down. Let's not always go to the worst case, but the simplest one first.

As an aside note, we do have actual veterinarians on this board who are never seen in the Emergencies section. Wish that wasnt the case, but it is, maybe a liability issue, who knows? So, we do the best we can and there are many knowledgable folks here trying to help others who may not have a phD after their name, but are reliable sources of information, nonetheless.

Techno, sure hope you get that rat problem fixed! Dont want to get entirely off track on your thread here. I agree that dusting or anything floating in the air like DE or poultry dust or even plain old flour can cause sneezing as can ammonia levels at their height.

 

[Wild Chicken]

I'm glad that you choose to get your info from Gail's book, but I choose to take my information from a DOCTOR of POULTRY wink...and one who has studied poultry in the field for 40 years. Spent about an hour on the phone, and multiple times on the internet, with the DOCTOR and my long line of questions.

Yep....once again as my post states....DOCTOR Brown is a DOCTOR OF POULTRY......and with a PhD comes the DR.!!! It never crossed my mind that people would think he was a medical Dr.

, sorry if I confused anyone on that.....don't think there are many medical dr's that would know much about poultry diseases

**edited to remove rude and disrespectful remarks**

And I guess that yes a veterinarian could have knowledge of poultry, but most don't "specialize" in poultry. That's why I guess if you get cancer, you would go to an oncologist!!! So I choose to take the advice of a "specialist"!!!

Most people on this board are VERY helpful, and DON'T try to MAKE you share their opinion. And than there are some that look down their noses at those that don't share their opinions. Just my observation....and I'm not getting heated, just stating the fact that yes there are many reliable sources and people just have to choose what type they are going to follow

No offense, or defense, here!!!

Dr. Brown has a PhD in Poultry Science....never said he was an Avian Vet, so yes he is a very knowledgeable man. And I didn't even know that he had an online store. I received his name/number from a fellow bycer and I wrote down everything he recommended and than ordered from Jeffers. He never even mentioned to me that he had an online store. **edited to remove inflammatory comment**

 

[hinkjc]

To avoid any further confusion for our members, Peter Brown is not a Licensed Avian Vet (or any other type of animal veternarian for that matter). He is in business to sell products from his store and while he may have great knowledge, it doesn't change the fact that there is no license to practice animal/avian medicine in his state/locale.

This thread is straying way off-topic. Let's get back on topic of helping the OP.