So what exactly is a "premises"???

Discussion in 'Local Chicken Laws & Ordinances (and how to change' started by Meara, Sep 11, 2011.

  1. Meara

    Meara Chillin' With My Peeps

    418
    9
    116
    Jan 23, 2011
    Midwest
    This is the code for East Moline, IL. Do you think "premises" means a building/home or does it mean a property line? I looked through the defined terms at the beginning of the code and found nothing defining a premises. Hmmm The property in question is quite long but only 100 feet wide so this is going to be a crucial point.

    6-4-7: HOUSING:
    No person shall cause or allow any stable or place where any animal is or may be kept to become unclean, or unwholesome, and it shall be unlawful to keep any live swine or pigs in the city.

    It shall be unlawful to keep or raise any chickens, horses, cows, goats, sheep, rabbits or other fowl within fifty feet (50') of any premises in the city. (Ord. 04-15, 5-3-2004)

    6-4-8: LOCATION OF ANIMAL RUN, PEN, ETC.:
    No animal run, pen, shed or house hereafter erected, repaired or reconstructed shall be permitted within twenty five feet (25') of a neighboring building or structure designed for or permitting human habitation. (Ord. 04-15, 5-3-2004)

    6-4-4: STRAYS:
    It shall be unlawful to permit any cattle, horses, swine, sheep, goats or poultry to run at large in the city. Any such animal running at large in any public place in the city shall be impounded in the manner provided in chapter 5 of this title. It shall be further unlawful to picket or tie any such animal in any street of the city for the purpose of grazing or feeding. (Ord. 04-15, 5-3-2004)
     
  2. redriver

    redriver Chillin' With My Peeps

    317
    4
    103
    Mar 6, 2011
    Northern California
    Hrm. Could have been worded better, that is for sure. Premises should mean the dwelling and the property it sits on. I would call them up and ask specifically if chickens are allowed. You would think that if they weren't, they would just flat out say it in the code along with excluding pigs. Since they have a footage shown, it makes me think they are allowed, unless they are saying that no one in the city can have them and moreover, no one outside of the city, but within 50' of city limits can have them either.
    [​IMG]
    But, for your sake I hope they meant "dwelling" when they said "premises." If what they are trying to say is 'you can have them as long as they are 50' from any house,' you could put them towards the back of the property since it is long. But, if they really mean 'you can have them if they are housed 50' from your property line,' then it sounds like you are legally out of luck.

    Ugh. What a mess. Just call and get clarification.
     
  3. Meara

    Meara Chillin' With My Peeps

    418
    9
    116
    Jan 23, 2011
    Midwest
    Yeah, it's a bit vague. Knowing the city officials if I call they will just say NOTHING is allowed [​IMG] I will likely have to defend myself if I put a coop in and anyone complains to the city so I want to be prepared. I noticed there is no mention of roosters either, although there is an ordinance for animals that create a noise disturbance. The way the property is I'm not sure anyone would ever even know I have a coop or chickens. It will not be visible to neighbors.

    Has anyone else come across this sort of wording before in an ordinance?
     
  4. Meara

    Meara Chillin' With My Peeps

    418
    9
    116
    Jan 23, 2011
    Midwest
    Anyone else out there have any thoughts?
     
  5. rpchris

    rpchris Chillin' With My Peeps

    160
    3
    91
    Aug 27, 2011
    Saint Louis, MO
    In this case I think it means property line. There is a second clause in there saying the coop must also be 25 ft from your house. Many cities have laws like this that don't specifically prohibit livestock but effective make it impossible because you can't place a coop where its not in violation. [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2011
  6. gryeyes

    gryeyes Covered in Pet Hair & Feathers

    Premises would be the plural of premise, and the strictest meaning of that singular form of the word is a building and/or plot of property. Therefore, one could be "on the premise" even when standing outside of a building.


    The Code Enforcement folks HERE do not allow any "stable" to be built or maintained within 30 feet of any other "structure" on any piece of property. Which means it can't be any closer than 30 feet of your OWN house or your garage, much less a structure on an adjoining piece of property.

    And then they decided "stable" refers to any structure housing animals, so they could muck with chicken coops. I am going to make the case that a dog house is as much a "stable" under that definition, and are they kidding me????

    Horses, cows, alpacas, sheep and other four-footed animals are housed in barns and stables, but chickens are POULTRY, have only two legs, and do not present the same housing issues as 'stabled' animals.

    Code Enforcement and the words they rule by are dweebs. <*shaking head*>
     
  7. Frost Homestead

    Frost Homestead eggmonger

    1,452
    16
    148
    Jul 9, 2011
    Lago Vista, TX
    I believe premises means within the property line, not a building or dwelling. I can speak from experience, here when they say 50 ft in the ordinance it actually says "from the nearest dwelling". So I think they actually mean the property line.

    edited to add *within*
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2011
  8. zzGypsy

    zzGypsy Chillin' With My Peeps

    1,981
    22
    141
    Aug 8, 2011
    Quote:100x
    *this* is why I moved to Missouri.

    to the OP, good luck with your challenge!
     
  9. Meara

    Meara Chillin' With My Peeps

    418
    9
    116
    Jan 23, 2011
    Midwest
    Hmmm, thanks for the input folks. The property is 100 feet wide so if "premises" means property line then as long as my coop has zero dimensions in the space/time continuum I should be in fine shape [​IMG] Guess I'm going to need skinnier chickens.
     
  10. zzGypsy

    zzGypsy Chillin' With My Peeps

    1,981
    22
    141
    Aug 8, 2011
    Quote:[​IMG]

    in looking fo rinformation on premises liability I find this: A property owner is generally liable for dangerous conditions on the property, such as dead trees overhanging a walkway, negligently maintained stores, parking lots, stairways and driveways" so I'm thinking it's at least common, if not exact, for it to mean the entire property.

    looking forward to seeing photos of your quantum chickens.
     

BackYard Chickens is proudly sponsored by