Soapbox time or Looking for like minded individuals interested in contributing to herb treatment dat

[coach723]

Quote: I would absolutely be up for trying this if I knew the correct dose or ratio to feed. Do you use the extract?
I have coccidia in my soil, so have occasional outbreaks. I slowly expose my chicks to the soil when young, and don't usually have outbreaks in them, it's usually older birds with weaker immune systems that I have issues with. Would love to not have the issue at all.
I'd much rather use an herbal if it was effective. I already add oregano to my feed, and I use oregano oil fairly often.
And I work very hard at keeping their area clean and dry.
I think you would be doing a great service by providing the info you are looking at. There are many places that say "garlic is good for.....", "turmeric is good for..." etc. but doesn't say how much, how often, how long, what form, etc. I guess another important factor is going to be a resource list for where to go about obtaining some of the less common herbals.
I hope you are able to get it done!

 

[cmeeksrfl]

I would absolutely be up for trying this if I knew the correct dose or ratio to feed. Do you use the extract?
I have coccidia in my soil, so have occasional outbreaks.

You have hit on one of the problems that we in the Western world have with using herbs and a sticking point on my conceived project, at least from the viewpoint of western science: dose and consistency of the product. Dose and herbs don't fit well in the same sentence. Herbs are a "to effect" kind of thing. We here in the West are so conditioned to using exact menus and amounts (2 tablespoons in 1/2 cup of water) by our familiarity with drugs, a large number of which came from plants and do have a very specific and sometimes very narrow range of safety & efficacy because they are no longer a part of that whole. If you google Artemisia annua the first thing on the page will be artemisinin which is what Western science has determined is the "active ingredient". Here in the West we feel the need to determine what single element of that herb is causing that effect so that we can extract it, reproduce it, concentrate it, patent it & determine the dose that will cause the desired effect in the majority of test subjects as well as the dose that starts causing problems. This is the process that a large percentage of our drugs went through to be approved for our use and what we expect of anything that we use for similar effect.

Herbs will vary in their constituents and quality by how & where they grew, how they were harvested & stored, and the amount you need to give will vary by each individual because they are... an individual. The best herbalists have an almost shamanistic or spiritual approach to herbs. They go by intuition or feel when they decide how much to give or not give. I could come up with a starting point but it would be up to the owner of the bird to decide. We are so used to having everything resolve immediately when we take the right drug, that we often can't see the slow, steady improvements that we get with herbs. This is why we still need drugs, often we don't have enough time to wait, but if you can't get the drugs for whatever reason, there may still be a treatment option, if you can find it or even grow it yourself. There's no formal list of herbs that work with birds, only antedotes from people who have gone ahead & tried them.

So, how much oregano do you put in your feed? How did you determine how much to use? Are you using an extract, oil or a bulk dried product? Why did you start using it and do you feel that it is effective for the purpose that you are administering it? Are you comfortable with an your arbitrary dose just because everyone has been using this plant for millennia in their spaghetti? By the way, I put dried oregano leaf in my chick starter, at least for the first month or 2 so I'm right there with ya. But these are the kind of questions to ask of everyone.

This whole thing would require a lot of thought and input from as many people as we can get involved. It could produce some really good information...or it could be worthless. It would depend on the quality of the input from this community.

 

[Hillaire]

so basically you don't know the answer as to how much you use...you just know that you want to use herbs?

 

[cmeeksrfl]

so basically you don't know the answer as to how much you use...you just know that you want to use herbs?

Actually, I have treated a number of animals successfully with herbs for over 10 years now and will continue to do so. How much I use depends on what I'm using, how I'm using it, what I'm using it for and the size and condition of the animal that I am using it on. I was hoping to find others interested in using herbs in chickens for things other than esthetics. So far, haven't gotten many takers so it's not yet time to be talking specifics.

 

[coach723]

You have hit on one of the problems that we in the Western world have with using herbs and a sticking point on my conceived project, at least from the viewpoint of western science: dose and consistency of the product. Dose and herbs don't fit well in the same sentence. Herbs are a "to effect" kind of thing. We here in the West are so conditioned to using exact menus and amounts (2 tablespoons in 1/2 cup of water) by our familiarity with drugs, a large number of which came from plants and do have a very specific and sometimes very narrow range of safety & efficacy because they are no longer a part of that whole. If you google Artemisia annua the first thing on the page will be artemisinin which is what Western science has determined is the "active ingredient". Here in the West we feel the need to determine what single element of that herb is causing that effect so that we can extract it, reproduce it, concentrate it, patent it & determine the dose that will cause the desired effect in the majority of test subjects as well as the dose that starts causing problems. This is the process that a large percentage of our drugs went through to be approved for our use and what we expect of anything that we use for similar effect.

Herbs will vary in their constituents and quality by how & where they grew, how they were harvested & stored, and the amount you need to give will vary by each individual because they are... an individual. The best herbalists have an almost shamanistic or spiritual approach to herbs. They go by intuition or feel when they decide how much to give or not give. I could come up with a starting point but it would be up to the owner of the bird to decide. We are so used to having everything resolve immediately when we take the right drug, that we often can't see the slow, steady improvements that we get with herbs. This is why we still need drugs, often we don't have enough time to wait, but if you can't get the drugs for whatever reason, there may still be a treatment option, if you can find it or even grow it yourself. There's no formal list of herbs that work with birds, only antedotes from people who have gone ahead & tried them.

So, how much oregano do you put in your feed? How did you determine how much to use? Are you using an extract, oil or a bulk dried product? Why did you start using it and do you feel that it is effective for the purpose that you are administering it? Are you comfortable with an your arbitrary dose just because everyone has been using this plant for millennia in their spaghetti? By the way, I put dried oregano leaf in my chick starter, at least for the first month or 2 so I'm right there with ya. But these are the kind of questions to ask of everyone.

This whole thing would require a lot of thought and input from as many people as we can get involved. It could produce some really good information...or it could be worthless. It would depend on the quality of the input from this community.

I did look it ( Artemisia Annua) up, I have "Herbal Antibiotics" by Stephen Harrod Buhner. Had not gotten around to that one yet, very interesting. Lots, and lots of good info, but the book , at least in part, is not really written for a lay person like myself.

Sometimes I spend more time looking up terminology than reading! But hopefully eventually it will increase my knowledge enough to try some more things in the future. Your questions were spot on, and I've always kind of practiced the theory that if it isn't going to hurt you, then it's worth a try. I use the oregano since it's antibacterial, antiviral, anti parasitic etc. and functions as an immune booster. I know they are working with oregano oil in the mass producers and report positive results. I'm using dried herb mixed in my feed, I just kind of eyeball it. It's probably about 1/3 - 1/2 cup to each days feed for 16 birds. It's enough to see it in there. And if I have a sick bird I usually add a drop of the oil to whatever else I'm giving them. I know that from personal experience that the reaction from other humans is mostly negative, or just puzzled, when you start to talk about herbal remedies. Fortunately I know an acupuncturist/herbalist so I do have the ability to ask questions and get serious answers, even if it's about chickens! But it's his living so I try not to abuse the privilege, even though he is pretty patient.
I use herbal remedies for myself and my family, and after many years my husband no longer thinks I'm a total fruitcake, because they work!!

 

[Gojichicken]

I read your very interesting posts. Can you please tell me watch to do with a Pullet that the other chickens have pulled her feathers from atround her ears and keep pecking her where she is so red, what do I do??? I'm just a baby at this only having chickens for my first time ever and only about a month!! I have some blue medicine from the Old Mill store and put it on her and they attacked when I put her down. She's in a separate kennel for now.

 

[coach723]

In general it's best to start a new thread for a new question. Questions often get missed when they are at the end of an existing thread like this.
How old are your birds? Are they in a brooder or a coop?
I'm going to give you a couple of links to articles on pecking and some causes and solutions.
http://www.the-chicken-chick.com/2015/04/chick-picking-causes-prevention.html
http://www.the-chicken-chick.com/2013/03/chicken-feather-loss-cannibalism-causes.html
If the skin is broken I would use veterycin wound and skin care spray until it is healed.
If they are in a brooder you can divide your brooder with hardware cloth she can be separated but they can still see each other.
Is it all the other chicks or is there one or two instigators. If there are a few chicks that do not attack, put them in with her.
As the articles will say, overcrowding or too much heat can contribute. Also boredom.
In general I would say that my brooder is way "oversized", and I have never had a pecking issue while the chicks are in it.
And as soon as they are big enough they are outside in my 'nursery run' during the day, and only in the brooder at night, until the temps are high enough that they can stay out permanently.
If they are in a coop, then mostly the same applies. Not enough space is a big instigator. As is boredom.
Many people swear by blu-kote. I have used it, but am not real excited by it. If it works to keep them from pecking, fine. My results have been pretty "eh". I just separate until a wound is healed enough to not be an issue.

 

[Gojichicken]

They don't have it and suggested drawing salve? I'm trying to be as natural as possible using herbs like what you talked about and I've been reading like crazy so I'm glad you're here.

 

[Gojichicken]

I also read pine tar? Any ideas??

 

[coach723]

They don't have what? Veterycin? There is a Tractor Supply in Bosque Farms NM, most TSC's carry it. It may be in the dog/cat aisle, it's good for all species.
890 Bosque Farms Blvd., Bosque Farms NM, 87068, 505-869-9430
Check with any other pet stores or feed stores you may have.
You can also mail order many places to have on hand.
You can also make a healing salve yourself, with coconut oil, beeswax, comfrey and oregano. Recipe and instructions here: http://thefrugalchicken.com/comfrey-salve-for-chickens/
I wouldn't personally put pine tar on a wound. I pretty much feel like, with rare exception, if I don't want it on me, then I'm not putting it on them.
In a pinch you could just use the coconut oil until you find something else. Just put a little on with a q-tip. Also you can use plain neosporin (without pain killer). These are all for healing, they don't address the pecking.