SOB save our birds

[IamRainey]

I've just watched the first hour of Kerri's video. I think by her own evidence it's pretty clear that she didn't miss an opportunity to make a sad situation worse. The agricultural authorities and law enforcement sent to prevent her from interfering were FAR from "goons". They showed almost superhuman restraint and more courtesy than I could have mustered in the face of her out of control and combative behavior.

As a person who had been a law enforcement person herself, she certainly knew that court order was going to be executed. It outweighs an e-mail by about the difference between a scooter and an 18-wheeler. Her histrionics were never going to change that and she had to know it IF she had been an officer of the court at some point. So she grandstanded for the media she hoped to attract and for social media.

Her disregard for how she might have spread the disease to a much larger flock within a 1/4 mile of her unsecured property is pretty stunning. It makes her claims for concern about innocent animals very suspect to say the least. And I say that because, by her own statement we know that she had had her chickens tested but DID NOT know what the results of the tests were at that point.

Finally, at no point in the hour I've seen does she attempt to help her kids process what's happening or to comfort them. Instead she modeled out of control behavior that just escalated the potential damage that could be done to their emotional health.

If, as someone else said some posts before, it takes the state too long to respond to advice that there are sick birds, a case like Kerri's sheds light on why.

 

[Trux]

That person who you are calling a goon had a court order. IMO all this episode has done is make a bad situation worse and is not going to help stop the spread. People hiding birds, moving birds on the down low, and spreading it farther out will just make the govt take more extreme action. Do you really want that?

 

[Kathy Golla]

Everyone’s points are valid.
No matter how Kerri acted it would not have changed the outcome. Those that are completely calm and had their birds under quarantine rules had the same outcome.
The point is frustration because of non transparency, humane euthanasia, optics, lack of evidence ( pretty easy to fix), common decency with communication to Ca citizens and lack of engagement from news organizations and elected officials. Kerri’s just one example.
Perhaps we should find another persons experience to quote as an example. There’s plenty out there to choose from.
Btw I get your point @IamRainey that perhaps a better, more average example would be better to talk around, cause there’s plenty of holes to poke in this one. But we are at a minimum talking about basic decency in the face of adversity. Even if Kerri is a difficult client, she’s still a microcosm of the issue.
I think everyone has made very valid points. Kerri started this post. @IamRainey asked some specific, relevant questions of Kerri (the OP) today that I myself am awaiting the answers to. I’m going to wait for Kerri to weigh in with whatever points she has to make on this thread.

 

[Animalfisherwoman]

USDA ran epidemiological models in December that recommend what the government's doing now because they say it's the most effective option.

In the short term, this is creating noncompliance.

In the long term, it's an excuse. How is this disease spreading, specifically? Where are the contact studies with details? Sorry, but it's gotta be more than "better be safe than sorry."

The question ultimately involves politics, and to effectively draw support, Kerri needs to smoothly engage with those who'll ask her tough questions.

 

[getaclue]

Here is the link to the confirmed cases of VND, according to the USDA APHIS.
https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/ou...p7pUO_T90MuVTCX9344StwKtk8JnagvnI8uferbZCw!!/
Click the VIEW/CLOSE radio buttons for both 2018, and 2019.

Notice the first thing mentioned on Dec. 28, 2018 is a Retail Feed Store? In an earlier post, I had mentioned that Feed Stores should be made to comply with some biosecurity measures as well. It's interesting, but on the Chicken Chick's website, one of the biosecurity measures she mentions for flock owners in areas affected with VND, is disinfecting the vehicle tires when returning from the Feed Store.

What prompted me to mention it, was an experience I had when we were looking to buy a home. We went with our realtor to view a home. There were quite a few chickens running around the yard. I mentioned that I had chickens too. She sort of clammed up. Hmmmmm, a chicken person that won't talk about chickens? We viewed the house, then began looking at the yard, and adjoining structures. Again, I mentioned my chickens. Just about the time we got to her coop area, she opened up that her birds had cost her a small fortune in vet bills. They had Infectious Coryza. Oh, and since we had birds, we might not want to go into the coop area. She felt it was cruel to keep them penned up, and her small children loved seeing them running around the yard. She mentioned the feed she was using for them.

Holy Cow, Batman! We were all walking on the same ground that contaminated chickens had walked. I mentioned feed, and she let me know which feed store she, and the kids used. There was no attached garage, so she and her kids would tromp around where the contaminated chickens had been to get to their vehicle, then go into the Feed Store. When we got home, we stripped in the garage, and our clothes, and sneakers went in the wash, with normal soap, and a little bleach in the dispenser. We showered, and put on fresh clothes. I made up some bleach water in a sprayer, and decontaminated the vehicle we rode in, both inside and out. Again, I showered, changed, and washed my clothes. The next day, I repeated the decontamination in the vehicle, and garage.

That is what got me to thinking about the Feed Store being a hub, and the need for them to take more precautions to at least disinfect their floors, counters, card readers, etc. on a more frequent basis. I know they don't. About once a month, I go to the Feed Store. Yes, when I go to the Feed Stores, I shower, and change clothes before going into my coops. I also spray the flooring where I sit, and the lower part of the outside, including tires on my vehicle when I get back.

 

[IamRainey]

Kathy, you've been very measured and reasonable and I appreciate how you've been responsive to both sides. I understand your interest in this matter as I'm aware there's been a single NoCal case of vND.

But here's where I'm concerned: why go looking for a case that proves a point when the point, itself, is dubious? This is a substantial threat to us down here in LA County -- and Riverside and San Bernardino Counties were there is far more poultry -- but also surrounding areas of potential contamination like points farther south, NoCal and AZ and UT where single cases of vND have been detected. As Animafisherwoman has demonstrated with her link to the USDA above, euthanasia of potential vectors in the hot zones IS the method of choice for containing the contageon. Birds WILL BE killed whether or not they are presently infected in the hot zones that develop.

So far as I can see -- and I dread having to do this myself but am firmly resolved to if necessary as a person in one of the affected counties -- the remedy to an impersonal crew coming in to dispatch large numbers of birds quickly and efficiently is to do it ourselves with the care that satisfies our emotional bonds and the biosecurity that stops the spread of the virus. That's a tough thing to be sure but one of the responsibilities we take on when we get animals.

IF I have to do it, I will do it knowing that it's the best protection that you in NoCal and folks in the San Diego area and folks in AZ and UT have. And whether or not I eventually have to do it, I have empathy and gratitude for the backyard keepers and the commercial operations who submitted to the protocol like mature adults and citizens in the larger interest.

Perhaps our efforts should go to staring a fund or some cooperative effort to help them repopulate when the conditions are, once again, secure. But I don't see that spreading Kerri's hysteria, selfishness, irresponsibility and the sense that "government" is responsible for acts of god serves anyone.

 

[Animalfisherwoman]

Kathy, you've been very measured and reasonable and I appreciate how you've been responsive to both sides. I understand your interest in this matter as I'm aware there's been a single NoCal case of vND.

But here's where I'm concerned: why go looking for a case that proves a point when the point, itself, is dubious? This is a substantial threat to us down here in LA County -- and Riverside and San Bernardino Counties were there is far more poultry -- but also surrounding areas of potential contamination like points farther south, NoCal and AZ and UT as we've seen. As Animafisherwoman has demonstrated with her link to the USDA above, euthanasia of potential vectors in the hot zones IS the method of choice for containing the contageon. Birds WILL BE killed whether or not they are presently infected in the hot zones that develop.

So far as I can see -- and I dread having to do this myself but am firmly resolved to if necessary as a person in one of the affected counties -- the remedy to an impersonal crew coming in to dispatch large numbers of birds quickly and efficiently is to do it ourselves with the care that satisfies our emotional bonds. That's a tough thing to be sure but one of the responsibilities we take on when we get animals.

IF I have to do it, I will do it knowing that it's the best protection that you in NoCal and folks in the San Diego area and folks in AZ and UT have. And whether or not I eventually have to do it, I have empathy and gratitude for the backyard keepers and the commercial operations who submitted to the protocol like mature adults and citizens in the larger interest.

Perhaps our efforts should go to staring a fund or some cooperative effort to help them repopulate when the conditions are, once again, secure.

@IamRainey, how would you take it if CDFA fined or worse yet leveraged criminal charges for the hypothetical DIY? The state's own process requires they have an unprocessed fresh carcass to test. Slaughtering spreads body fluids. They could easily say a reasonable person would allow CDFA to come in instead, and you should have known.

That might have been how Kerri felt. She'd talked directly to the state vet who SET UP the euth zones, and she thought she was following the rules.

From the 5/3 Valley News:

https://www.myvalleynews.com/story/...jEassH7bek5rfpgZG93H-NLxB-u9092b6zXmXsjsYj3tQ

"The quarantine will in place until officials find no more cases. It could take months or years. If someone needs to relocate, they can contact the CDFA for special permits to move the birds."

If the birds aren't known to CDFA, ain't no way your average reasonable person--or at least average person--isn't gonna want things to stay that way with the way things are going.

 

[ThracianHorse]

You deserve a medal. I cannot slam the like button hard enough on this post.

Kathy, you've been very measured and reasonable and I appreciate how you've been responsive to both sides. I understand your interest in this matter as I'm aware there's been a single NoCal case of vND.

But here's where I'm concerned: why go looking for a case that proves a point when the point, itself, is dubious? This is a substantial threat to us down here in LA County -- and Riverside and San Bernardino Counties were there is far more poultry -- but also surrounding areas of potential contamination like points farther south, NoCal and AZ and UT as we've seen. As Animafisherwoman has demonstrated with her link to the USDA above, euthanasia of potential vectors in the hot zones IS the method of choice for containing the contageon. Birds WILL BE killed whether or not they are presently infected in the hot zones that develop.

So far as I can see -- and I dread having to do this myself but am firmly resolved to if necessary as a person in one of the affected counties -- the remedy to an impersonal crew coming in to dispatch large numbers of birds quickly and efficiently is to do it ourselves with the care that satisfies our emotional bonds and the biosecurity that stops the spread of the virus. That's a tough thing to be sure but one of the responsibilities we take on when we get animals.

IF I have to do it, I will do it knowing that it's the best protection that you in NoCal and folks in the San Diego area and folks in AZ and UT have. And whether or not I eventually have to do it, I have empathy and gratitude for the backyard keepers and the commercial operations who submitted to the protocol like mature adults and citizens in the larger interest.

Perhaps our efforts should go to staring a fund or some cooperative effort to help them repopulate when the conditions are, once again, secure. But I don't see that spreading Kerri's hysteria, selfishness, irresponsibility and the sense that "government" is responsible for acts of god serves anyone.

 

[IamRainey]

Animalfisherwoman, I read the link you provided and I see nothing that indicates an owner can't put their own birds down.

The CDFA has published an article on humane killing which asphyxiates the bird/s so that fluids are not spent. And, if I needed to, I guess I'd freeze the carcasses for testing. The CDFA's own guidelines indicate that freezing does not kill the virus.

But thanks for making me think through these practical issues should I need to rely on them.

 

[Animalfisherwoman]

Animalfisherwoman, I read the link you provided and I see nothing that indicates an owner can't put their own birds down.

The CDFA has published an article on humane killing which asphyxiates the bird/s so that fluids are not spent. And, if I needed to, I guess I'd freeze the carcasses for testing. The CDFA's own guidelines indicate that freezing does not kill the virus.

But thanks for making me think through these practical issues should I need to rely on them.

The SOB site posted another lady's kill order, which said all the carcasses would be submitted for testing. They're going door-to-door to collect "hazmat"--what if the owner has eaten it? How does the state know he hasn't hidden the birds if they didn't do the kill? The state so far is leaving it a gray area, just another potential oasis of misunderstanding.