Solar Space heat and rainwater catchment systems...

[corvidae]

We're trying to design a coop space --12x16 divided in half with a covered aisle down the middle for humans to walk between the two divisions-- and the general overall plans are going well. However, I've got a few questions. I want to use a rainwater catchment system to provide the majority of the chickens water--shouldn't be a problem during spring/summer/fall, but in the depths of winter, there are some obvious issues. Understanding that there is no electricity to the coop area and absolutely no reasonable way (read "less than $10,000) to run electricity there, I'm thinking to set up a solar space for winter to keep the water collector barrels in and to keep the pipes from freezing. Seems like it might work nicely aside from one minor glitch--exactly how do I get the snow to melt off the roof in order to catch it into the barrels? Yep, that's a biggie...

Does anyone use solar space heat for their coops or any other applications? Does it work well for you to keep temps at least above freezing? And, exactly what does one do about the solar space during summer to avoid broiling temps? Cover it with something reflective rather than a black absorbant? Take it down all together?

By the by, this whole project has already been dubbed "Fort Chicken" by my boys, due to the high level of predator security involved. This is being built in an area where I (or the folks I co-own the land with) will be going for a couple of days each week--we actually live two hours away from the land. It has presented a considerable number of design problems involving nesting boxes, security, positioning etc. We are essentially turning our 11 acres into the beginning of an odd hobby farm with cabins and a whole lot of thought and planning have gone into this. Should I not be able to figure out a sufficient rainwater catchment system before winter. I have someone lined up to simply deliver tanks of water to the coops. I prefer to go the self-sufficient route, but that may or may not work out. Doesn't seem like solar electricity (PV) is all that useful in winter conditions, but if someone knows differently, please advise.

No lambasting now, folks--we know this is completely out of the norm.

Then too, we aren't quite normal around here...

 

[DarkWolf]

55 gallon drum inside the coop itself would act as a thermal mass in the winter time once the coop is heated. If you have a good southern exposure you can set up a solar air heater that can heat the coop. Insulate the coop walls the floor to help retain the heat but do not insulate all of the roof and the heat within the coop will cause the snow on the roof to melt. But depending on your temps, it may very well just form icicles.

Best thing to do in the spring/summer is to just remove the solar unit and put it some place safe. It'll prolong it's life, as well as keep from cooking the birds with 130+ degree temps from it.

I'd had no need for solar heat down here, but I am doing a green roof on my duck hut [and already on my wood shed] which is fun all the same. Just not functional.. Well.. Besides looking pretty and keeping the rain out.

Far as photovoltaic goes in the winter time, as piddly as your electricity needs might be I think you'd be fine with a $200 panel, a deep cycle battery and run everything 12 volt. You can get bright bright LEDs for lighting, water pumps, etc. Question is, what power needs do you see yourself as having?

Now, water wise.. Catching it is a simple task. You can make your own gutters out of 5-6" PVC ripped down the center [via jig] or buy gutters, whatever.. Then just direct the water to the holding tank which as I said would be best placed inside for thermal mass. As they'd be inside you'd need a good sealed system from the outside in along with an overflow.

Where are you, anyway. What is a large factor in it all.

 

[mochicken]

I dont know much about the water collection but I know quite a bit about solar collectors, you can build them out of a storm window, some storm drainage tubing, a couple 2x4's, and a piece of plywood. If you want to get more air out of if you can put a 10 dollar solar fan on it to force the air through better. To give you an idea, during this last winter we had temps in the 20's when I tested and I was getting a pretty constant 120 degree air coming out, I set the fan to kick on at 90 degrees and off at 70 so it would kick the fan off until the panel got warm again.

I am headed to bed for tonight but I will keep an eye on this thread and give better details of the build when I get a little spare time, congrats on wanting to save energy and water, every little bit helps.

 

[corvidae]

I live in Utah, so high desert weather. Temps in winter at night get down around 20-30 degrees normally, but can dip below zero on occasion. This winter was particularly cold. Snow where the coop will be ranges up to 2-3 feet on the ground in one storm, but usually melts off before the next storm-- or, at least, goes down a bit. There will be piñon pine shading at least part of the coop or run, but I intent to build with good southern exposure specifically for the solar heating space. Shouldn't be a prob to take it down in summer, I imagine. The only thing we might need electricity for is simply a system to melt the snow off the roof (heat tape? Or is that too much of a fire hazard?). We intend, at this point, to go with polycarbonate roofing with pretty solid 2x4 bracing/framing to support snow load. I was originally thinking ply with shingles, but what I've read on rainwater catchment indicates that might contaminate the water more than something like polycarb or metal. And metal sounded like it would transfer too much heat in summer and too much cold in winter, or am I way off base in that thinking?

 

[corvidae]

Quote:
Dang, that some good heat you were getting there! I'm having trouble envisioning the set up for it--when you get time, I'd love more description! Seems like a set up such as you speak off would have a fairly easy time keeping the coop above freezing temps and if I keep the water collection barrels in the coop itself, that should do the trick nicely.

 

[elmo]

As you're planning this, don't forget to take into account summer weather and heat. Chickens actually handle cold quite well (unless they are one of the cold sensitive breeds) as long as they have a dry, draft free but adequately ventilated coop. Heat they don't handle so well, and some breeds are particularly susceptible.

Where we live in North Texas, chickens actually die from heat every summer. The key here is to pick heat tolerant breeds and give them as much natural shade as possible and housing with lots of ventilation.

 

[mochicken]

If you guys are really interested in solar space heating I have a site that I get most of my information from, I am in no way affiliated with the site so take my advice and just do research on your projects as I think they are just submitted projects. I have built several things from there and they work like a charm, you could probably check out instructables site to get some good ideas too.

Here is the link to the site I got most of my information and ideas from, moderators feel free to delete the link if it is against the rules and like I said I am in no way affiliated with this site, just recommending it. The ideas on the site are free and there is nothing to pay for if you are just looking at building your own, im sure there are ads but you do not pay to just check out the people's builds and ideas

http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/SpaceHeating/Space_Heating.htm

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
IME this is a rather more complicated issue than some previous posters seem to think. I have fooled around with this a bit myself btw.

First, your big problem is not collection pipes freezing, it is DISTRIBUTION pipes (or waterers) freezing. I truthfully do not believe that nipple waterers are going to work at 0 F, and even in just the twenties and teens it is my understanding that they only work if connected to a *heated* (not near-freezing) water tank.

So it seems to me that you are likely to have to accept some degree of nighttime freezing of your waterers. I would suggest that instead of trying to use any sort of auto waterer system, just use buckets or pans that you can simply dump and refill in the morning. You could also fool around with insulating jackets for vacuum waterers, that would probably freeze at 0 F too but you might well be able to get a version that is ok for *most* of your nights, perhaps being cleared out by a little poke with a stick each morning if it has started to ice over a bit.

The second problem is the water SUPPLY (and, crucially, its spigot) freezing overnight (once you have collected the water, I mean... yes, I'm getting to the collection angle eventually LOL). This is pretty soluble with active management:, as you say, have a little insulated closet for the storage barrel with a large window in the outer wall. You close an insulated cover over the window every day as the sun gets near setting (or if it gets darkly cloudy), to hold the heat in. If you need a system that does not require active management (the opening and closing of the insulated cover for the window every day) then you could TRY having the closet be fairly small, and the storage container quite large, and use double- or triple-pane glass. In some cases that would work; but "it depends". In this case especially, you would want the spigot that you use to tap water off the storage container (to fill your buckets or pans or whatever) to be fully inside the insulated area, so you would have to open a hatch or something like that; otherwise you will tend to get the spigot freezing up even if the water in the *tank* is still liquid. Which is an annoying type problem to have, especially if the spigot is plastic and you can't just hit it with a heat gun or hairdryer

Water collection system: this is probably the most straightforward part of the system IMHO. First, I don't know about you but my metal and plastic roofs drip even if the air temperature is still well down into the mid 20s if the sun is fully out, esp. in the later part of the winter when days are longer. So you might collect more natural drip water than you think. But, second, for the number of chickens you're likely to have in that size coop, you should be perfectly well able to melt snow. The idea is to set up a second solar space (like a tiny upright lean-to greenhouse), on the exterior of the coop, where you shovel snow into there directly or into containers you place in there, and during the course of the day it melts and then in late afternoon you can give it to the chickens or put it into the storage reservoir. The best setup would probably be to have a hopper, U or V profile I should think so it can be rather tall and narrow, made of thin black-painted metal; every morning, you would open the solar space it's in, shovel snow into the hopper, close the window back up, and go off to live your life. You would have a drain opening in the bottom of the hopper with buckets or etc below it to catch the meltwater. This would require no nighttime insulation of the glass, btw, since it is only used during daytime.

I do a version of this sometimes in my coop, but rather inelegantly and inefficiently, and have thought a lot about doing a larger version out at the horse barn so I have a good source of water if the faucet there freezes up (which it does if the electricity is out). The main limiting factor is that of course you only get maybe 10% the volume of water that you had of snow (depending on the nature of the snowfall of course), and that if you don't get snow on a pretty regular basis you start to run out of nearby convenient snow and may have to carry shovelsful or pile it onto a tarp or sled. But of course, if you don't get snow on a pretty regular basis, roof water from snow won't necessarily work that consistently EITHER

If you do decide to pursue this, I would be eager to hear/see whatcha come up with and how it works, especially in terms of the snow-melting system described in the previous paragraphs, b/c as I say I do *think* about setting up something like that for my horses but have not actually *done* so, and seeing what works or doesn't work for someone else would be very helpful

Good luck, have fun,

Pat

 

[latebloomer]

interesting topic, i'm going to eavesdrop

 

[corvidae]

Quote:
Yes, indeed--temps don't usually get above the 90's hereabouts, but inner-coop, that is certainly enough to bake chicken! Part of the run will be covered to provide shade, but the coop will also be built with the pines providing partial shade as well. We are still working out the ventilation issues to provide serious ventilation in summer without compromising predator security too much. The breeds I've picked are fairly hardy, but it won't much matter how hardy they are if the temp in the coop is a balmy 120 degrees (or higher)!