Solid EE Rooster curiosity genetics

[MandaRae]

So I have this Rooster he is Americauna EE mix
Blue/Black/Splash
I will be putting my light Sussex, white leghorns & a few Cream Legbars with him.

Any ideas what to expect from these mixes? I'm excited about the offspring possibilities!

 

[Lady of McCamley]

I was hoping a real expert would come along and answer this, as I have some basic genetics down (egg color, combs, barring, silver-red sexing, white dominant), but am trying to learn the more advanced color genetics. Because trying to slog out an answer to a genetic question is how I learn, I'll give you my best answer below then ask @NatJ to chime in as they have MUCH better expertise at this.

Your rooster looks "blue" based to me in the photo (with secondary coloring of red-gold in hackles and saddle...which I *think* is blue gold coloring). That means he has one blue gene (You state he is Black/blue/splash). So I'll assume 1 blue gene and not 2 as he looks blue not splash. That means, if 1 blue gene, he will present 50% blue chicks and 50% black chicks (if I finally have that memorized) as he will pass that blue diluter along 50% of the time:

Looking at his body base
BB (black/black) produces black
B/b (black/black diluter) produces blue as it only takes 1 diluter gene to dilute the black to blue
b/b (black diluter/black diluter) produces splash as the black is diluted totally, leaving some blue spots here and there, or a blue haze.

So that over White Leghorns, which are white dominant, should produce 100% white birds (yellow down chicks) with some color spot bleed through here and there, in my experience with white. I typically got a white bird with a few odd black spots. Breeding those pullets back to this guy will 50% white and 25% blue 25% black, with I think the red-gold hackles, as you slowly breed out that white dominance.

Over Light Sussex (which I believe is actually silver columbian based on wheaten) I think would produce 50% blue chicks and 50% black chicks body base, but because your boy has gold hackles I think your hackle colors will be sex linked? Meaning girls will get the gold-red hackles and the boys will get the silver-yellow?? So they should be sex linked.

Over Cream Legbar, which is golden creole with gold diluters, I think you just get 50% black and 50% blue body base with gold hackles both sexes.

So @NatJ....how'd I do. Am I getting closer

LofMc

 

[MandaRae]

That is so fascinating!! I'm new to all the genetics of it. I mostly breed for egg color. I'm obsessed with having rainbow eggs LOL

Nut recently I've been wanting to also green for the pea or rose combs.

@ladywhat do you think the percentages of getting the peacombs from the leghorns would be?

 

[MandaRae]

I was hoping a real expert would come along and answer this, as I have some basic genetics down (egg color, combs, barring, silver-red sexing, white dominant), but am trying to learn the more advanced color genetics. Because trying to slog out an answer to a genetic question is how I learn, I'll give you my best answer below then ask @NatJ to chime in as they have MUCH better expertise at this.

Your rooster looks "blue" based to me in the photo (with secondary coloring of red-gold in hackles and saddle...which I *think* is blue gold coloring). That means he has at least one blue gene (You state he is Black/blue/splash). So I'll assume 1 blue gene and not 2. That means, if 1 blue gene, he will present 50% blue chicks and 50% black chicks (if I finally have that memorized) as he will pass that blue diluter along 50% of the time:

Looking at his body base
BB (black/black) produces black
B/b (black/black diluter) produces blue as it only takes 1 diluter gene to dilute the black to blue
b/b (black diluter/black diluter) produces splash as the black is diluted totally, leaving some blue spots here and there, or a blue haze.

So that over White Leghorns, which are white dominant, should produce 100% white birds (yellow down chicks) with some color spot bleed through here and there, in my experience with white. I typically got a white bird with a few odd black spots. Breeding those pullets back to this guy will 50% white and 25% blue 25% black, with I think the red-gold hackles, as you slowly breed out that white dominance.

Over Light Sussex (which I believe is actually silver columbian based on wheaten) I think would produce 50% blue chicks and 50% black chicks body base, but because your boy has gold hackles I think your hackle colors will be sex linked? Meaning girls will get the gold-red hackles and the boys will get the silver-yellow?? So they should be sex linked.

Over Cream Legbar, which is golden creole with gold diluters, I think you just get 50% black and 50% blue body base with gold hackles both sexes.

So @NatJ....how'd I do. Am I getting closer

LofMc

ALSO his chicks DO tend to be mostly blue some black and a few splash. Out of 18 chicks last spring only 1 was splash! The rest were Black or blue.
My 3 hens are Blue.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Depends on if he is double or single peacomb.

As EE, let's assume single pea comb, or rrPp (r is rose and p is pea).

It only takes 1 pea gene for pea comb.

Single is lack of pea and rose.

So over single white leghorns, with this rooster 50% pea and 50% single.

If he happens to be double pea, then 100% pea comb

LofMc

 

[MandaRae]

Depends on if he is double or single peacomb.

As EE, let's assume single pea comb, or rrPp (r is rose and p is pea).

It only takes 1 pea gene for pea comb.

Single is lack of pea and rose.

So over single white leghorns, with this rooster 50% pea and 50% single.

If he happens to be double pea, then 100% pea comb

LofMc

How do I figure out if he is single or double peacomb?

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Yes, over blue hens you would have blue 50%, black 25%, splash 25%.

LofMc

 

[Lady of McCamley]

How do I figure out if he is single or double peacomb?

By the chicks over single White Leghorns.

If every chick he throws is a pea comb over the leghorns, then he has 2 pea comb genes.

If you get a mix of single and pea over leghorn, he is single pea.

LofMc

 

[NatJ]

How do I figure out if he is single or double peacomb?

As @Lady of McCamley said, breeding with single-comb hens will tell (that includes all three breeds you listed: Sussex, Legbars, and Leghorns, unless you have the rare rosecomb Leghorns.)

Sometimes you can also tell by looking at the size of the comb and wattles.
Double peacombs are usually smaller than single peacombs. One copy of the gene changes the shape of the comb, while two copies of the gene changes the shape but also shrinks the comb & wattles.
But that only sort-of works, because chickens have such variable comb sizes anyway. I would guess he is double peacomb, but I would not be too surprised if I am wrong.

So @NatJ....how'd I do. Am I getting closer

Definitely closer. I think you have it mostly right.

I hadn't chimed in, because I wasn't sure about some of his genetics. There are some genes I have trouble recognizing in photos. (My trouble on him is mostly about the e-locus, which determines how the red & black are organized on the bird. I had been hoping someone better there would chime in But reading what you posted, I got reminded of how much can be predicted even without figuring that out.)

Your rooster looks "blue" based to me in the photo... That means he has one blue gene (You state he is Black/blue/splash). So I'll assume 1 blue gene and not 2 as he looks blue not splash. That means, if 1 blue gene, he will present 50% blue chicks and 50% black chicks (if I finally have that memorized) as he will pass that blue diluter along 50% of the time:

Yes, you have this part right.

Looking at his body base
BB (black/black) produces black
B/b (black/black diluter) produces blue as it only takes 1 diluter gene to dilute the black to blue
b/b (black diluter/black diluter) produces splash as the black is diluted totally, leaving some blue spots here and there, or a blue haze.

You've got the abbreviations wrong, but the idea right.
B stands for Barring.
Bl stands for Blue, and Blue is considered dominant to black.

bl/bl produces black (not-blue)
Bl/bl produces blue
Bl/Bl produces splash

So that over White Leghorns, which are white dominant, should produce 100% white birds (yellow down chicks) with some color spot bleed through here and there, in my experience with white. I typically got a white bird with a few odd black spots.

I would expect blue spots rather than black ones, but I'm not certain about that. Otherwise I agree with this.

Breeding those pullets back to this guy will 50% white and 25% blue 25% black

Almost.
I agree about 50% whites if you breed the half-Leghorn daughters back to him.
But the other half should divide into 25% black, 50% blue, 25% splash
(Because he is blue, and those daughters would be blue under the white.)

In practice, some White Leghorns have blue and some have white barring, so that next generation might show a higher rates of splash, and might show some with white barring.

with I think the red-gold hackles, as you slowly breed out that white dominance.

I agree, the red is likely to keep showing up, and breeding daughters back to him is likely to make it more obvious.

Over Light Sussex (which I believe is actually silver columbian based on wheaten)

That sounds right

I think would produce 50% blue chicks and 50% black chicks body base, but because your boy has gold hackles I think your hackle colors will be sex linked? Meaning girls will get the gold-red hackles and the boys will get the silver-yellow?? So they should be sex linked.

I think you are right there, but I also expect the gold or silver to be more obvious in this cross, with less black or blue visible (plenty of black/blue to see, but maybe not enough to look like the main color on each bird.) That is one of the points I was unsure of myself, how much of which colors will be showing up in the next generation and how they will be arranged. I don't expect full Columbian pattern, but I do expect some restriction of black.

Over Cream Legbar, which is golden creole with gold diluters, I think you just get 50% black and 50% blue body base with gold hackles both sexes.

Typo: you meant "crele" not "creole."

Yes, mostly right here, but you missed that Cream Legbars are also barred, so this is another cross that produces sexlinks.
Since barring is on the Z sex chromosome, when the mother has barring but the father does not, the sons will have white barring and the daughters will not.
So the male chicks should have a white or yellow dot on their head, and will grow feathers with white barring in them. Depending on what down color the chicks have, the dot on the head may be easy or hard to see, but the barring should show up in the feathers anyway.

I think this cross may produce chicks with more red color than the father shows, but I'm not entirely sure of that.

I mostly breed for egg color....recently I've been wanting to also green for the pea or rose combs.

There is a linkage between the gene for pea comb and the gene for blue egg color. They can be linked in any combination, but they do tend to be inherited together.

Examples:
Ameraucanas have pea comb/blue egg
Cream Legbars have not-pea comb/blue egg
Sussex have not-pea comb/not-blue egg
Brahmas have pea comb/not-blue egg

Since you've got both this rooster (EE, shows pea comb) and Cream Legbars, you probably have both blue egg gene linkages available (pea and not-pea.)

Your Leghorns and Sussex will have not-blue linked with not-pea.
When you breed this rooster to those, you will probably be able to select for egg color in the next generation by looking at comb type. Birds with pea combs would lay blue (or green) eggs, birds with single combs would lay not-blue (and not-green) eggs.

I am quite confident this is used when breeding Easter Eggers commercially. The EEs that lay brown eggs are because some crossovers do occur, so when they hatch large numbers of chicks, they get a few where the pea comb switches and sticks to the not-blue egg gene.

Since you also have Legbars (not-pea/blue), you will not be stuck with just one comb type for your blue eggs, but can also have not-pea comb types (single, rose, even V or Buttercup if you want.)

 

[MandaRae]

I realized as I read through i mistyped its a Light Brahma not Sussex
I have not idea how I did that lol as I was reading through I was like Sussex? I'm not putting my speckled sussex in there and then I realize my mistyped lol

So it's a Light Brahma with peacomb lol but still a brown layer