Some Genetics Questions

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by tinychicky, Oct 18, 2011.

  1. tinychicky

    tinychicky Chillin' With My Peeps

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    1. i recently aquired a silkie pullet i originally thought was white, but upon closer examination i noticed a few gray splashed primary, foot and crest feathers, but only a few. does this make her a defected white silkie or a very lightly splashed silkie?

    2. the pullet in the picture below was hatched about 7-8 weeks ago. her mother is by a black mottled d'uccle/ black silkie mother and a black mottled d'uccle/black cochinX BB red oegb sire. her sire could be either a pure wheaten ameraucana or a mix breed bantam by the same sire as the hen and the mother a bantam mix of white cornish, black cochin, black silkie, and black rosecomb. which is the pullet's sire? if it's hard to tell from the pic, i can discribe her: dark fawn head fading down the hackle to white on the back. tail is white tipped with fawn. fluff is white. breast is dark rich fawn fading to white tipped with fawn, then pure white along the keel. white thighs/hocks. foot feathers white tipped with a bar of gray, a bar of fawn then more white. wing shoulders are white and dark fawn barred. primary coverts are white with a bar of gray, a bar of fawn and a white tip, secondary coverts are white tipped with a bar of fawn then more white. primaries are gray with white lacing. secondaries are faint gray that grows darker toward the tip of the feather with white lacing and a bar of fawn at the tip of the gray. as a chick her down was pale yellow with a spot of buff on the back of the head.
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    3. this 8 week old cockerel is a mix of a class C serama hen and either a lavender dutch or a black mottle d'uccle/black cochinX BB red OEGB. i suspect the 2nd because of the cockerels mottled coloration although the serama may be a black carrier, even though it's unlikely. he is black with some white mottling on he thighs and the tips of his flights. also, why is he so small? he weighs 2 oz at 8 weeks when my class A serama pullet weighed that at four weeks!

    [​IMG]

    thanks in advance!
     
  2. tinychicky

    tinychicky Chillin' With My Peeps

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    i should add, i've heard of mini seramas. is it possible black chick got that rare defect from his serama parent? thanks.
     
  3. kfacres

    kfacres Chillin' With My Peeps

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    you have too many crosses and breeds mixed into the batch to ever be 100% sure on the parentage of that chick. sorry...
     
  4. Illia

    Illia Crazy for Colors

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    The first chick is carrying color from the BBR OEG and the Wheaten Ameraucana, that's where the fawn breast comes into play. Someone's got dominant white, splash, or khaki going on, - That's where the rest of the bodily color comes from.

    Mottling is recessive, so the white you're seeing in your second chick is actually just from black coloration. Looks to me though like Self-Blue x Serama. The Serama parent I'm guessing then is a Wheaten or Duckwing type, as both are recessive to black (Self-Blue, which is recessive, making the offspring black) As the chick matures it should get some leakage on its hackles/saddle/wings.

    If the mottled cross were the parent, the chick would have more leakage, most already showing by now, and possibly even simply be BBR in color.
     
  5. GotGame

    GotGame Chillin' With My Peeps

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    NE of OKC
    Quote:X2
     
  6. sjarvis00

    sjarvis00 Chillin' With My Peeps

    May 4, 2009
    Shawnee, OKlahoma
    Quote:Where in the wide wide world of poultry did you get this answer?
    There is such a mess in the potential parentage and none of what you state do i see in these birds.. When you have the genetic possibilities of a EE and a Serama in the mix and all the potentials of a Duccle of questionable parentage as well good luck sorting it out.
     
  7. tinychicky

    tinychicky Chillin' With My Peeps

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    thanks illia, i was hoping for an EE pullet there. her mother is white with one gray hackle even though she's by a black mottle d'uccle and a poor quality black silkie (gold leakage on the hackles) of questionable parentage. he may have been the dominant white carrier.

    it's odd that the lav dutch should still be fertile, he's going on six now and is lower in the peck order to the mixed cock. i thought it was very unlikely.

    what about the silkie?
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2011
  8. Illia

    Illia Crazy for Colors

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    Quote:So explain to me then why you think I'm wrong? I certainly don't fully doubt you, but I want an explanation. I'm not saying I'm absolutely right either. Yes, that much mixing makes it very hard to track down what colors come from where, but I'm sorry, the first chick shown has coloring that just can't be made by much, and the duckwing from the BBR OEG way back there is one part of it. The only other part is the Wheaten of the Ameraucana, or something like Duckwing from the unknown mutt possible parent. Doesn't make it an EE, just makes it carrying at least one copy of duckwing (e+)

    The black chick I specifically mentioned an unassurance, since the Serama could have a lot of different things in it but either of the two other parent choices will indeed black it out. I've seen a LOT of Seramas with an e^Wh base or a e+ base, both of them turn black with slight leakage when crossed with E/E. And so as I mentioned, the chick is gonna feather out black with some sort of leakage, and the amount may vary, and there's no full way of what it will tell us, however, it doesn't have feathered legs or the influence of the OEG's BBR color which would turn it any color but black, so, there's why my theory comes in.

    My two cents, and again I'd love to know why I'm wrong if I am.
     
  9. sjarvis00

    sjarvis00 Chillin' With My Peeps

    May 4, 2009
    Shawnee, OKlahoma
    Quote:So explain to me then why you think I'm wrong? I certainly don't fully doubt you, but I want an explanation. I'm not saying I'm absolutely right either. Yes, that much mixing makes it very hard to track down what colors come from where, but I'm sorry, the first chick shown has coloring that just can't be made by much, and the duckwing from the BBR OEG way back there is one part of it. The only other part is the Wheaten of the Ameraucana, or something like Duckwing from the unknown mutt possible parent. Doesn't make it an EE, just makes it carrying at least one copy of duckwing (e+)

    The black chick I specifically mentioned an unassurance, since the Serama could have a lot of different things in it but either of the two other parent choices will indeed black it out. I've seen a LOT of Seramas with an e^Wh base or a e+ base, both of them turn black with slight leakage when crossed with E/E. And so as I mentioned, the chick is gonna feather out black with some sort of leakage, and the amount may vary, and there's no full way of what it will tell us, however, it doesn't have feathered legs or the influence of the OEG's BBR color which would turn it any color but black, so, there's why my theory comes in.

    My two cents, and again I'd love to know why I'm wrong if I am.

    Illia, I'm not saying you are wrong I question how anyone can determine anything based on the mixed up mess.

    After reading through the potentails and the way I read it indicates that there is no Bb Red OE just a bird that had some OE in its genetic make up, black mottled d'uccle/ black silkie mother and a black mottled d'uccle/black cochinX BB red oegb sire.
    secondly the "Americauna" is a rooster and thought to be wheaton based on what an apperanance? Who is to say it actually anything other than a male bird with a wild type partridge appearance.
    I don't feel like getting a debate over something that doesn't matter but I do not beleive that anyone can determine who did what with this mess...
     
  10. tadkerson

    tadkerson Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:What you have in your mini-bird is called quantitative trait loci. He inherited enough DNA from both parents that inhibits growth to create the smaller size.

    It could be both parents carried a recessive gene that caused him to be even smaller.

    Or it could be he inherited a piece of DNA from the serama that inhibits the growth genes which caused him to be smaller ( not enough growth hormone or insulin growth factors ). The serema hen would have had additional DNA that depressed the inhibition of growth allowing her to grow more ( she produced more growth hormones or insulin growth factors) therefore she is larger than her son.

    Could be all kinds of possibilities that inhibit growth. Could be a pituitary gland problem, growth hormone releasing factor problem, a thyroid/thyroxine problem or metabolic problem associated with amino acid uptake. It is the DNA that would regulate the processes involved in growth

    Tim
     

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