Something New and I Really Need to Keep My Mouth Shut

[AmyLynn2374]

I am aware of the lethal gene; with that and being shipped I have a good chance of getting nothing. There was a picture showing the rooster for the eggs I received; most definitely short legged. I'll keep everything crossed and hope for the best. From what I have read chicks die in the shell because they are unable to turn in the shell to hatch. If that is true, can the chicks hatch with help-assisted hatch? I could find nothing on assisted hatch for Japanese bantams or serama bantams which also have the same lethal gene. My guess is that it is not possible?

I have never heard that about not being able to turn in the shell. If a bird gets two copies of the "creeper gene" and does not die in the first week and makes it through development it is not a healthy chick that just can't turn in the shell, the development and overall health of the chicken would be subpar to the point it would probably have to be culled later if it was "helped out" which is unlikely because extraction before the external pip rarely "saves" a chick, and in most instances kills a chick that would otherwise have been viable.

I found this is relation to the "creeper gene": https://books.google.com/books?id=M...ow does the creeper gene cause death?&f=false

I do adore my Black Jap Bantams, they look so funny running around with the standards. They are like little compact chickens. A girl whom I was buying eggs from had thrown in a couple and told me they were there, but I was uncertain if either would hatch after researching the lethal allele, but both hatched happy and healthy. I hope you get some hatchers!

 

[nchls school]

I'm just going to horn in here and say how awesome that your spouses surprise you all like that!

@Sarafena1982 and @nchls school you have some very thoughtful spouses there. Love hearing stories like yours!

My Kimmi is a gem; eight years married and the honeymoon continues.

 

[nchls school]

I have never heard that about not being able to turn in the shell. If a bird gets two copies of the "creeper gene" and does not die in the first week and makes it through development it is not a healthy chick that just can't turn in the shell, the development and overall health of the chicken would be subpar to the point it would probably have to be culled later if it was "helped out" which is unlikely because extraction before the external pip rarely "saves" a chick, and in most instances kills a chick that would otherwise have been viable.

I found this is relation to the "creeper gene": https://books.google.com/books?id=M...ow does the creeper gene cause death?&f=false

I do adore my Black Jap Bantams, they look so funny running around with the standards. They are like little compact chickens. A girl whom I was buying eggs from had thrown in a couple and told me they were there, but I was uncertain if either would hatch after researching the lethal allele, but both hatched happy and healthy. I hope you get some hatchers!

There is so much information out there this is totally off the wall: that makes it hard to know what is or is not right. T^hank you for your reply.

 

[nchls school]

I candled my Japanese bantam eggs last night and all of then had a broken membrane; very disappointing. It got me to wondering on how hard of a jolt would it take to break the membrane, so this morning I took a dozen eggs of varying size, candled them to make sure they were intact, and tested them. Each egg I held in my hand and gradually shook the egg faster and faster. Shaking did not break any membranes no matter how fast the shaking was as long as there was no jolt. Then I tested jolts; soft, more and more until I jolted the egg as hard as I could using my hand. With each egg it took the hardest jolt to break the membrane. From this experiment I know that, for the membranes to break, our postal workers had to have thrown my eggs onto a pile; or some such.
Reasonable handling would not have broken the membranes and ruined the eggs. I do not think I, or my wife, will be ordering eggs through the mail. Is there a safer way to have them sent?

I still have more Japanese bantam eggs coming; I hope the postal workers are more careful. When they come I'm going to candle them immediately-no point in incubating addled eggs. Maybe next time...

 

[AmyLynn2374]

I candled my Japanese bantam eggs last night and all of then had a broken membrane; very disappointing. It got me to wondering on how hard of a jolt would it take to break the membrane, so this morning I took a dozen eggs of varying size, candled them to make sure they were intact, and tested them. Each egg I held in my hand and gradually shook the egg faster and faster. Shaking did not break any membranes no matter how fast the shaking was as long as there was no jolt. Then I tested jolts; soft, more and more until I jolted the egg as hard as I could using my hand. With each egg it took the hardest jolt to break the membrane. From this experiment I know that, for the membranes to break, our postal workers had to have thrown my eggs onto a pile; or some such.
Reasonable handling would not have broken the membranes and ruined the eggs. I do not think I, or my wife, will be ordering eggs through the mail. Is there a safer way to have them sent?

I still have more Japanese bantam eggs coming; I hope the postal workers are more careful. When they come I'm going to candle them immediately-no point in incubating addled eggs. Maybe next time...

Are you talking about the air cell being detached? Because if so that is common with shipped eggs and with the proper techniques they can attatch back and can produce chicks.

 

[AmyLynn2374]

You should always candle shipped eggs before setting to check for detached air cells. Most common practice is to let them sit upright untouched for 24 hours prior to incubation. If there are detached air cells most people don't turn them for the first 2-3 days of incubation to give them a chance to reattach. Some do, some don't. Sometimes chicks develop and hatch with detached air cells, sometimes they end up being saddle air cells. If the yolk itself didn't get too scrambled there's a chance you'd still get some. Shipping hatch rates are only 50% because of the handling through the PO.

 

[nchls school]

You should always candle shipped eggs before setting to check for detached air cells. Most common practice is to let them sit upright untouched for 24 hours prior to incubation. If there are detached air cells most people don't turn them for the first 2-3 days of incubation to give them a chance to reattach. Some do, some don't. Sometimes chicks develop and hatch with detached air cells, sometimes they end up being saddle air cells. If the yolk itself didn't get too scrambled there's a chance you'd still get some. Shipping hatch rates are only 50% because of the handling through the PO.

Thank you for the information as it will give me something to try when the rest of the eggs are delivered. I have not heard of this before so I am most grateful for your post. In the past detached air cells always ended up as duds. You gave me a little more hope for next time. Thanks again.

 

[AmyLynn2374]

Thank you for the information as it will give me something to try when the rest of the eggs are delivered. I have not heard of this before so I am most grateful for your post. In the past detached air cells always ended up as duds. You gave me a little more hope for next time. Thanks again.

I forgot to add, a lot of people that do shipped eggs, incubate them upright in cartons as well and they just tilt the cartons (usually putting something under one side) and tilt them back for next turn. (Instead of laying them flat and turning or using an automatic turner.) This keeps the embryo from sticking, but is less stress/movement on them. It doesn't always work, but it gives them that little more of a chance.

 

[nchls school]

I forgot to add, a lot of people that do shipped eggs, incubate them upright in cartons as well and they just tilt the cartons (usually putting something under one side) and tilt them back for next turn. (Instead of laying them flat and turning or using an automatic turner.) This keeps the embryo from sticking, but is less stress/movement on them. It doesn't always work, but it gives them that little more of a chance.

Yes. This is something I read today. I have been doing a lot of research every moment that I could today. While I have been raising chickens for several decades I have not dealt much with shipped eggs or incubators; only on a very limited basis so I have a lot to learn. I'm going to candle the bantam eggs again to verify just what damage there was. The air cells were ruptured as the air floated to the highest part of the egg as it was turned. I'll look to see if the yolk membrane was also broken. In that case I do not think anything would have helped. I had put these eggs under a silkie hen who is a reliable brooder so I am sure any damage was done in shipping.

 

[nchls school]

After candling the six eggs four had ruptured yolk membranes; the insides were thoroughly mixed.