SOP's Can you help, or do you want to learn?

[Skyeknight]

To the top of the skull. Why do you want to measure their height? The best way I can think of is to use something similar to a wicket that we use to measure the height of dogs, might be less stressful to the chicken?

Because I prefer to breed towards taller chickens and a heavier weight doesn't equal height. Thank you for the suggestion of the wicket! I will look into getting one.

 

[Acre4Me]

One day I attended the Ohio National poultry show. Held every year in Ohio, in the fall. It is the largest poultry show in the nation. By going through and seeing the entries for each category (for example, cockerel category, rooster category in a breed) are all together in a section. We were there after many had been judged, so ribbons and awards were on the cages. And by seeing so many good entries, it was actually really educational to see the winner, the reserve, and all the rest bc it was usually pretty clear why the winner and reserve won. So, attending a local show (or the Ohio National) can be of benefit.

That said, my kid shows chickens at local 4-H fair. They always have a judge to judge using APA standards (but, it is not an APA show). The judges vary year to year, and there has been 1 judge (2x judging over the course of the past 7 years), and I swear he’s paid off by the “winners” bc the chosen winners are never to standard and have distinct issues) but there are some good entries but they don’t win (and no, we don’t always have the best entry). But other judges seem to take a good eye to the entries and talk about the good/the bad according to standard with the kids. One year, we learned that the hen entered as a breed, had the wrong base feather fluff color (so you don’t see this color unless you specifically hold the chicken and look at the fluff), which was specified in the standard-we just hadn’t paid attention to that when reviewing the APA standards at the point of selecting our entries.

I’ll have to look for some pics!

 

[Amer]

One day I attended the Ohio National poultry show. Held every year in Ohio, in the fall. It is the largest poultry show in the nation. By going through and seeing the entries for each category (for example, cockerel category, rooster category in a breed) are all together in a section. We were there after many had been judged, so ribbons and awards were on the cages. And by seeing so many good entries, it was actually really educational to see the winner, the reserve, and all the rest bc it was usually pretty clear why the winner and reserve won. So, attending a local show (or the Ohio National) can be of benefit.

That said, my kid shows chickens at local 4-H fair. They always have a judge to judge using APA standards (but, it is not an APA show). The judges vary year to year, and there has been 1 judge (2x judging over the course of the past 7 years), and I swear he’s paid off by the “winners” bc the chosen winners are never to standard and have distinct issues) but there are some good entries but they don’t win (and no, we don’t always have the best entry). But other judges seem to take a good eye to the entries and talk about the good/the bad according to standard with the kids. One year, we learned that the hen entered as a breed, had the wrong base feather fluff color (so you don’t see this color unless you specifically hold the chicken and look at the fluff), which was specified in the standard-we just hadn’t paid attention to that when reviewing the APA standards at the point of selecting our entries.

I’ll have to look for some pics!

I do think a junior fair is the best way to learn what to look for in your bird and see how to improve it (if the judge is good.)

 

[Amer]

 

[Amer]

These are from the Standard Bred Poultry Support Group on Facebook

(note, his wing carriage is too low)

 

[Sic]

View attachment 4104610View attachment 4104611

Exactly why you can't start with hatchery birds and expect to get to show quality in your lifetime

 

[Amer]

A lot of people focus too much on the number of points on the comb or the color, which is like picking a partner for life based solely on their hair.
This is what the standard looks like to them

If you actually see the birds on champion row they rarely have the correct number of points on their comb because there are so many things that are more important than that! It's in the standard but each extra point is only a half point deduction and the comb is only worth 5 points total (out of 100 for the whole bird!)

 

[Amer]

Exactly why you can't start with hatchery birds and expect to get to show quality in your lifetime

Especially not with a breed like Rhode Island Reds. Hatcheries do those ones dirty and there are already so many good ones out there! I understand the sentiment if you want to work with pencilled Hamburgs or Redcaps though. Show quality ones of those don't exist.

 

[Sic]

Especially not with a breed like Rhode Island Reds. Hatcheries do those ones dirty and there are already so many good ones out there! I understand the sentiment if you want to work with pencilled Hamburgs or Redcaps though. Show quality ones of those don't exist.

Sometimes you have to work with what you have or what you can get, but you have to be willing to do a lot of breeding and a lot of culling if you want to adhere to a breed standard and your focus should be body type first so you have the correct base to work from, comb, feather type, color and other minor features are more amenable to tweaking later on in the process. Some things are polygenic though, so having a basic understanding of genetics and heritability of genes will help.

 

[Skyeknight]

Sometimes you have to work with what you have or what you can get, but you have to be willing to do a lot of breeding and a lot of culling if you want to adhere to a breed standard and your focus should be body type first so you have the correct base to work from, comb, feather type, color and other minor features are more amenable to tweaking later on in the process. Some things are polygenic though, so having a basic understanding of genetics and heritability of genes will help.

How much is known of the genetics that influence bodytype? Like how the tail or wings are carried or how "full" a body looks?