Sorry if this gets confusing!

[lilwanderer]

1.) What if I were to cross a white cochin bantam hen with a barred cochin bantam rooster?
I have frizzle and smooth hens but i dont think that makes a difference if they're the same color.
2.) What about a barred cochin bantam roo over a standard blue cochin hen?
3.) What about a red frizzle cochin bantam over the barred roo?
4.) What about that rooster over a bobtail cochin hen?
5.) Now what about a frizzle bobtail cochin rooster over all the hens mentioned except the bobtail hen?
*** pictures for all applied ***
bobtail frizzle roo:

white hen:

white frizzle hen:

Red frizzle hen:

bobtail hen:

barred roo:

standard blue hen:

 

[NatJ]

I have frizzle and smooth hens but i dont think that makes a difference if they're the same color.

It makes a difference in whether the chicks have normal feathers, frizzle feathers, or frazzle feathers. It should not make a difference to the color.

normal x normal = normal
frizzle x normal = 50% each way
frizzle x frizzle = 25% normal, 50% frizzle, 25% frazzle (has health problems, so most people recommend not crossing frizzles to other frizzles)

2.) What about a barred cochin bantam roo over a standard blue cochin hen?

Half of chicks black with white barring, the other half of chicks blue with white barring. Chicks will probably hatch standard size (because of what size egg they are coming from), but mature size is likely may be in-between rather than clearly bantam or standard.

3.) What about a red frizzle cochin bantam over the barred roo?

Chicks will probably all be black with white barring, but may have some silver or gold leakage as they grow up.

Unless the barred rooster carries a gene that allows some other base color, instead of solid black. If that is the case, about 50% of chicks will have black with white barring, and the other 50% will have some other color with white barring (the "other color" would likely be some pattern of silver & black or gold & black.)

4.) What about that rooster over a bobtail cochin hen?
5.) Now what about a frizzle bobtail cochin rooster over all the hens mentioned except the bobtail hen?

I don't know enough about bobtail to say. I've read that it is recessive to almost everything, so the chicks might look like the non-bobtail parent, but I could easily have misunderstood what I read.

1.) What if I were to cross a white cochin bantam hen with a barred cochin bantam rooster?

White are hard, because several different genes can cause "white" in chickens. Do you know if the white hen has dominant white or recessive white?

You might get 100% white chicks that maybe have a few black bits here and there (hen homozygous for dominant white), or 100% chicks black with white barring (hen recessive white, rooster homozygous for E Extended black), or some each way (hen heterozygous for dominant white), or some completely different colors & patterns (hen recessive white, rooster E/? at the e-locus.) [I've forgotten how much genetics you know. Let me know if I have to translate that last paragraph.]



If she has recessive white and the rooster does not carry it, chicks will probably all be black with white barring, maybe with some leakage of other colors as they grow up.

*** pictures for all applied ***

Pictures are always good

 

[lilwanderer]

It makes a difference in whether the chicks have normal feathers, frizzle feathers, or frazzle feathers. It should not make a difference to the color.

normal x normal = normal
frizzle x normal = 50% each way
frizzle x frizzle = 25% normal, 50% frizzle, 25% frazzle (has health problems, so most people recommend not crossing frizzles to other frizzles)


Half of chicks black with white barring, the other half of chicks blue with white barring. Chicks will probably hatch standard size (because of what size egg they are coming from), but mature size is likely may be in-between rather than clearly bantam or standard.


Chicks will probably all be black with white barring, but may have some silver or gold leakage as they grow up.

Unless the barred rooster carries a gene that allows some other base color, instead of solid black. If that is the case, about 50% of chicks will have black with white barring, and the other 50% will have some other color with white barring (the "other color" would likely be some pattern of silver & black or gold & black.)


I don't know enough about bobtail to say. I've read that it is recessive to almost everything, so the chicks might look like the non-bobtail parent, but I could easily have misunderstood what I read.


White are hard, because several different genes can cause "white" in chickens. Do you know if the white hen has dominant white or recessive white?

You might get 100% white chicks that maybe have a few black bits here and there (hen homozygous for dominant white), or 100% chicks black with white barring (hen recessive white, rooster homozygous for E Extended black), or some each way (hen heterozygous for dominant white), or some completely different colors & patterns (hen recessive white, rooster E/? at the e-locus.) [I've forgotten how much genetics you know. Let me know if I have to translate that last paragraph.]



If she has recessive white and the rooster does not carry it, chicks will probably all be black with white barring, maybe with some leakage of other colors as they grow up.



Pictures are always good

Yep, please translate, I really need to study that.
For the white cochins being recessive white, I have no idea if they are, I'll have to ask the lady I got the hens from- If she even knows.
They are only 4/5 months, so it'll be a while until i hatch the chicks.

 

[NatJ]

Yep, please translate, I really need to study that.

White are hard, because several different genes can cause "white" in chickens. Do you know if the white hen has dominant white or recessive white?

You might get 100% white chicks that maybe have a few black bits here and there (hen homozygous for dominant white), or 100% chicks black with white barring (hen recessive white, rooster homozygous for E Extended black), or some each way (hen heterozygous for dominant white), or some completely different colors & patterns (hen recessive white, rooster E/? at the e-locus.) [I've forgotten how much genetics you know. Let me know if I have to translate that last paragraph.]

Translation and explanation of some points in that paragraph:

Homozygous, chicken has two copies of the gene being discussed. That means each chick must inherit one.

Heterozygous, chicken has one copy of the gene being discussed, and one copy of something else. Half of chicks inherit the one gene, half inherit the other gene.

E-locus and Extended Black: the e-locus is a specific spot on the chromosome. The genes at that spot are important for determining how colors are arranged on the chicken. There are at least 5 different genes (each is called an "allele"). One allele is Extended Black, which makes a chicken black all over. Another allele is Birchen, which arranges black & gold on the chicken in a specific way. Yet another is wild-type, sometimes called duckwing, that arranges black & gold in a different specific way. There are also a few others.

Because Extended Black is the most dominant allele at the e-locus, any chicken who has it will look black all over (possibly with a bit of leakage of other colors.) If your rooster is homozygous for Extended Black (has two copies of the gene), then every chick will get one copy of that gene and will look black. If your rooster is heterozygous for Extended Black (has one copy of that gene, and has one copy of a different gene), then half his chicks will be black (inherited Extended Black) and the other half will inherit the other gene (Birchen or duckwing or whatever else he actually has.)

A chicken with Extended Black is black all over unless something changes the black. In this case, barring adds white lines over the black, and Dominant White can turn all the black into white. A chicken who does not have Extended Black will usually have some kind of pattern with black-and-gold, but either the gold or the black or both can be changed to other colors. Gold can be lightened to cream, darkened to red, or completely removed to leave silver (white.) Black can be diluted to blue or chocolate, or changed into white (Dominant White gene).

When Dominant White turns black into white, it sometimes misses bits, so it is called "leaky." That is much more common in chickens that are heterozygous (have one copy of the gene) and less common in chickens that are homozygous (have two copies of the gene.) Some chickens that are heterozygous for Dominant White (only one copy of it) have very obvious black patches, and those chickens are often called "paints." You might get some paint chicks from your white hen and your black barred rooster, if the hen has Dominant White. Or you might get chicks who have little or no black.

When writing about genes, it is common to use abbreviations, such as E for Extended Black. All the alleles (forms of genes) at one locus (place on the chromosome) have abbreviations that start with the same letter. If there are just two, the dominant one gets a capital letter and the recessive one gets a lowercase letter. For example, B is barring, and b+ is not-barred. The + shows that not-barring is the original form of the gene, found in the wild junglefowl. When there are more than two alleles, the abbreviations get an extra letter or two to tell them apart. Sometimes the extra letters are in little raised text, but sometimes they are just marked with ^. So at the e-locus, we have E and E^R and e+ and some others. E is Extended Black, the most dominant of them, and the reason it's called the e-locus instead of the [something else] locus. E^R is Birchen, dominant over most of the others but not dominant over Extended Black. e+ is the wildtype form, sometimes called duckwing or a few other names. (It's got the + to show that it is the original form found in the wild junglefowl, and all the other alleles are mutations that have happened over time.)

If you know what two genes a chicken has, you can write them E/E (chicken has two genes for Extended Black) or E/e+ (chicken has one gene for Extended Black and one for the wild-type form). If you know one gene but not the other, you can write E/? or E/_ (chicken has one gene for Extended Black, but you don't know which other gene it might have.)

Recessive white is recessive, so it only shows when the chicken has two copies of the gene. It turns the entire chicken white. But if you cross one chicken with recessive white (hen) with one that does not have recessive white (rooster), each chick gets just one copy of the recessive white gene, and that is not enough to turn the chick white. That means it shows whatever other genes it has. In this case, the chicks might be black with white barring (from the father). But if he has some other gene recessive to E, then he might give genes that cause some kind of multi-color patterning on the chicks. The hen has two genes at the E-locus too, and we don't know what they are, but they will still be inherited by her chicks-- at which point we might see effects from them.

Let me know if I missed something that still needs translating or explaining

 

[lilwanderer]

Translation and explanation of some points in that paragraph:

Homozygous, chicken has two copies of the gene being discussed. That means each chick must inherit one.

Heterozygous, chicken has one copy of the gene being discussed, and one copy of something else. Half of chicks inherit the one gene, half inherit the other gene.

E-locus and Extended Black: the e-locus is a specific spot on the chromosome. The genes at that spot are important for determining how colors are arranged on the chicken. There are at least 5 different genes (each is called an "allele"). One allele is Extended Black, which makes a chicken black all over. Another allele is Birchen, which arranges black & gold on the chicken in a specific way. Yet another is wild-type, sometimes called duckwing, that arranges black & gold in a different specific way. There are also a few others.

Because Extended Black is the most dominant allele at the e-locus, any chicken who has it will look black all over (possibly with a bit of leakage of other colors.) If your rooster is homozygous for Extended Black (has two copies of the gene), then every chick will get one copy of that gene and will look black. If your rooster is heterozygous for Extended Black (has one copy of that gene, and has one copy of a different gene), then half his chicks will be black (inherited Extended Black) and the other half will inherit the other gene (Birchen or duckwing or whatever else he actually has.)

A chicken with Extended Black is black all over unless something changes the black. In this case, barring adds white lines over the black, and Dominant White can turn all the black into white. A chicken who does not have Extended Black will usually have some kind of pattern with black-and-gold, but either the gold or the black or both can be changed to other colors. Gold can be lightened to cream, darkened to red, or completely removed to leave silver (white.) Black can be diluted to blue or chocolate, or changed into white (Dominant White gene).

When Dominant White turns black into white, it sometimes misses bits, so it is called "leaky." That is much more common in chickens that are heterozygous (have one copy of the gene) and less common in chickens that are homozygous (have two copies of the gene.) Some chickens that are heterozygous for Dominant White (only one copy of it) have very obvious black patches, and those chickens are often called "paints." You might get some paint chicks from your white hen and your black barred rooster, if the hen has Dominant White. Or you might get chicks who have little or no black.

When writing about genes, it is common to use abbreviations, such as E for Extended Black. All the alleles (forms of genes) at one locus (place on the chromosome) have abbreviations that start with the same letter. If there are just two, the dominant one gets a capital letter and the recessive one gets a lowercase letter. For example, B is barring, and b+ is not-barred. The + shows that not-barring is the original form of the gene, found in the wild junglefowl. When there are more than two alleles, the abbreviations get an extra letter or two to tell them apart. Sometimes the extra letters are in little raised text, but sometimes they are just marked with ^. So at the e-locus, we have E and E^R and e+ and some others. E is Extended Black, the most dominant of them, and the reason it's called the e-locus instead of the [something else] locus. E^R is Birchen, dominant over most of the others but not dominant over Extended Black. e+ is the wildtype form, sometimes called duckwing or a few other names. (It's got the + to show that it is the original form found in the wild junglefowl, and all the other alleles are mutations that have happened over time.)

If you know what two genes a chicken has, you can write them E/E (chicken has two genes for Extended Black) or E/e+ (chicken has one gene for Extended Black and one for the wild-type form). If you know one gene but not the other, you can write E/? or E/_ (chicken has one gene for Extended Black, but you don't know which other gene it might have.)

Recessive white is recessive, so it only shows when the chicken has two copies of the gene. It turns the entire chicken white. But if you cross one chicken with recessive white (hen) with one that does not have recessive white (rooster), each chick gets just one copy of the recessive white gene, and that is not enough to turn the chick white. That means it shows whatever other genes it has. In this case, the chicks might be black with white barring (from the father). But if he has some other gene recessive to E, then he might give genes that cause some kind of multi-color patterning on the chicks. The hen has two genes at the E-locus too, and we don't know what they are, but they will still be inherited by her chicks-- at which point we might see effects from them.

Let me know if I missed something that still needs translating or explaining

So ill know if that hen is recessive white or not based off the chicks? Or if the roo has birchen, etc? Ill have to post the chicks from that pair so you can tell me. As ill forget what it all means.

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

Solid White in Cochin bantams is recessive white, for the record. In other words, it's a safe assumption that your birds are recessive white.

I also notice that your Barred cockerel looks heterozygous barred; that is, he looks like he only has one copy of barring when pure males typically have two copies. In a homozygous male, the white barring is generally visibly wider than the non-white part of the pattern, while on your bird the white and non-white bars look roughly equal, or like there's slightly less white than black in some spots. If he is heterozygous as I suspect, he'll only pass barring to half of his offspring, while the other half will be the same base colors mentioned as possibilities for the offspring, just without the white barring.

Beyond that, I don't have anything I can add to what NatJ has already contributed.

 

[NatJ]

So ill know if that hen is recessive white or not based off the chicks? Or if the roo has birchen, etc? Ill have to post the chicks from that pair so you can tell me. As ill forget what it all means.

Yes, looking at the chicks should help figure that out.

 

[NatJ]

Solid White in Cochin bantams is recessive white, for the record. In other words, it's a safe assumption that your birds are recessive white.

Good to know! In that case, the next mystery will be what genes are being hidden by that white

I also notice that your Barred cockerel looks heterozygous barred; that is, he looks like he only has one copy of barring when pure males typically have two copies. In a homozygous male, the white barring is generally visibly wider than the non-white part of the pattern, while on your bird the white and non-white bars look roughly equal, or like there's slightly less white than black in some spots. If he is heterozygous as I suspect, he'll only pass barring to half of his offspring, while the other half will be the same base colors mentioned as possibilities for the offspring, just without the white barring.

I forgot to consider that. Thank you for pointing it out!