Sour crop? Weird MG infection?

[TeamChaos]

1) What type of bird , age and weight
Mixed breed rooster, over a year old. Born w/ a scissor beak which self corrected for the most part. Savannah is a timid guy, always smaller than the rest.

2) What is the behavior, exactly.
He didn't coop up in the barn three notes ago- was spotted out wandering at 2 in the morning in the rain! My sister brought him in to the house and I looked him over in the morning. At first, it looked like he may have gotten his lower beak dislocated in a fight, but one of his eyes was sort of closed and I thought maybe he had the start of eye bubbles so I treated him with Tylan and separated him. Since then, he's been drooling a lot (his beard gets soaked and matted) and pretty lethargic. I offered him fresh water and he only drank a little, but when I offered him water with apple cider vinegar in it, he drank it eagerly. SInce then, I've been providing him w/ vinegar water and he's drinking well. I have massaged him and his crop feels non-existent but his neck has a pretty big "kink" in it. He'll straighten it out when I rub it and he's "burped" several times- it seems like there is air trapped in there somewhere but it's not inflating his crop or anything. In addition to the drool, he's had some kind of cheesy debris in the corner of his beak on and off and there seems to be a little scab on the side of the beak itself but it doesn't match the pictures of canker.







3) How long has the bird been exhibiting symptoms?

3 days
4) Are other birds exhibiting the same symptoms?

No

5) Is there any bleeding, injury, broken bones or other sign of trauma.

No. I no longer think he suffered any trauma to his beak to cause this.

6) What happened, if anything that you know of, that may have caused the situation.

He's a loner, he gets picked on, he eats food that the others don't have access to and he stayed out all nite in the rain.


7) What has the bird been eating and drinking, if at all.

He's happy to drink ACV water, he'll eat some watermelon and peas reluctantly.


8) How does the poop look? Normal? Bloody? Runny? etc.

I have not seen a stool today. When he was first in confinement, the poop looked normal- a little drier than most.


9) What has been the treatment you have administered so far?


He's had 1/2 cc of dylan twice, will dose again today unless I find out what I'm dealing with so far. I clean off his beard and irrigate his beak. He's separated so he won't get picked on or chased off from his food.


10 ) What is your intent as far as treatment? For example, do you want to treat completely yourself, or do you need help in stabilizing the bird til you can get to a vet?

I do not have access to a knowledgable chicken vet. I am not afraid to treat him once I know what I'm dealing with.

11) If you have a picture of the wound or condition, please post it. It may help.

There is no wound to speak of. I can try and get a pic of his drooling self later.


12) Describe the housing/bedding in use

He hasn't been cooping up w/ the other chickens. He free ranges during the day and sleeps on a barn beam in the hay loft at nite.

 

[TeamChaos]

I'm wondering if it could be be sour crop even though there is no swelling and I can't even really feel his crop. I'm contemplating adding probiotics either as yogurt or in the dry form to his treatment tonite. I also have oxine on hand and might mist him for good measure, in case it is a fungus. I just don't want to overdose the guy in trying to save him.

 

[dawg53]

Sounds like canker to me. Here's a link:
http://www.thepoultrysite.com/diseaseinfo/154/trichomoniasis-canker-frounce

 

[TeamChaos]

Thanks Dawg! Man, it feels like it's never something simple when someone in my flock gets sick! Well, Savannah is still with us. he's separated and seemed to perk up last nite. He loves the ACV water and will drink it happily. I gave him probios in unsweetened canned pumpkin last nite and he gobbled that up too and actually got on his little roost in the isolation room and went to sleep. I didn't end up scrubbing his beak w/ iodine or betadine last nite because I couldn't identify any plaques and since he was eating so well, I figured I'd give him a break. I rubbed him down after he ate and drank and I could actually feel his crop finally and yes, there was air or gas in it. I massaged it out and he didn't seem stressed by it. I messed with the lump in his neck a little bit to see if it seemed like it might match the description of the cheesy plug/ obstruction that comes along with canker, but since I've never felt one before, it was inconclusive. He's not laboring to breathe and as long as he's willing to eat and drink and has no obvious discomfort, I'll keep him around and observe. Thanks again!

 

[2greenboyz]

Hi TeamChaos - remember when I posted about Jet, the BSL that I thought had canker? Maybe she did maybe she didn't - I'll never know. But she did share some of the same indicators yours is going thru. The air or gas in the crop is one. Her crop did not feel particularly swollen at first but as she progressed it did. It also changed from day to day sometimes feeling almost normal, other times spongy or liquidy. When I massaged it, burps. I later found out (necropsy) that she had bacteria - and that makes sense because it was "fermenting". I should have had her on another antibiotic in addition to the canker treatment. The other thing she was doing similar to yours was the drooling. But she didn't do it all the time. There were days that she didn't do it at all. But it seemed to be like a "crop overflow" of liquid, since when she bent down to eat out it came in a stream. Then you know what happens - all the rest want to eat it up.

On the canker, I would do your best to look down the throat and check really good to make sure. The way I did it - since they don't like too much to volunteer for this procedure, take a pocket light and have a table or stable surface about waist high. Scoop the bird up and lay it on its side with feet toward you and feet are over the side of table. (Just make sure it doesn't fall off). You will have to use your arm to hold the bird down a little so it can't manipulate its feet and wings to stand up. Use your other hand to operate the light to see down in there. I kinda have to use both hands' fingers to open the beak but once its open you can just use one hand to keep it open. I've used this method now on several of my birds including pullets which are really wirey, and once they realize they can't get up, I can get the inspection done quickly with less stress for them. If someone has a better method I'd love to hear so I can learn from that.

Good luck with yours - just thought I'd give you my input based on what I've been through.

 

[TeamChaos]

Thank you 2greenboyz! I have been thinking about your experience w/ Jet a lot as I struggle to diagnose and treat Savannah. I'll take a good look down his throat again tonite- thanks for the handling tips!

I'm divided- Savannah was happy to eat the probiotics in pumpkin last nite, but I feel like I should supply something to combat the potential bad bacteria (I'm thinking oxine) but it's going to kill the good stuff too. Oh, what to do!

 

[TeamChaos]

R.I.P. Savannah. He never developed lesions or plaques visible in his mouth, but he continued to accrue "crust" in the corners of his beak and the front of him was coated w/ spit. I cleaned him up several times a day, offered ACV water, oxine and probiotics alternately, tylan and by the end I was syringe feeding him. It seemed like his eyes were affected and his beak was pushed off center and unable to open wide. Was it canker? I don't know. But he never quit trying, so I didn't either. So it goes.

 

[2greenboyz]

I was wondering how your boy was doing, I'm sorry to hear he didn't make it. Sure sounded like canker - at least he isn't suffering any more. I know what you mean about never giving up, I feel the same way. I think they know when someone cares. You gave him your best.