Soybean meal

[greyfields]

Soy meal, like all seed meals (Linseed, Cottonseed, etc.) are about 40% protein. So, I assume the birds are largery foraging for their own diets and the seed meal is there for the protein alone. Certainly, a diet like this, will be lacking certain minerals and other feed components; so I wouldn't call it a recommended way to feed as a 'complete ration'.

HOWEVER, lots of people out there don't feed their chickens at all and they just let them forage.

 

[chickenannie]

Denali,
I buy my feed from a local farmer who grows and mixes his own feed, and pastures his chickens (both broilers and egg-layers).

His egg-layer feed mix is corn, oats, roasted soybeans (unroasted soybeans are toxic to chickens), with a Probiotic (important) and a vitamin/mineral mix including calcium -- both from Fertrell (a great company that sells certified organic grains and mixes). The farmer grinds part of the grain finely and leaves the other grains in a "cracked" coarse state.

However, I don't know what the ratio is.

 

[digitS']

Well, leaving aside,
• the FDA regulation of food products and
• the use of soy as a binder in cardboard and
• the relatively recent widespread use of soy in North America and
• at risk of turning this into a conversation on the human consumption of food rather than chicken consumption of feed - -

The Japanese, by all accounts, have a far better record of health care, far less problems with many chronic diseases, and a high rate of longevity. One characteristic of the Japanese diet is the per capita consumption of soy - estimated to be over 20 times greater than Americans. (American Journal of Clinical Nutrition)

another Steve

As far as dueling references:

Sacks FM, Lichtenstein A, Van Horn L, Harris W, Kris-Etherton P, Winston M. Soy protein, isoflavones, and cardiovascular health: an American Heart Association Science Advisory for professionals from the Nutrition Committee. Circulation. 2006 Feb 21;113(7):1034-44. Epub 2006 Jan 17.

Hasler CM. Position of the American Dietetic Association: Functional foods. Journal of the American Dietetic Association 2004;104(5): 814-26.

American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists Committee on Practice Bulletins--Gynecology. Clinical Management Guidelines for Obstetrician-Gynecologists. Use of botanicals for management of menopausal symptoms. Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology. 2001 Jun;97(6):suppl 1-11. Review.

 

[kstaven]

True digits. But the fermentation process they use with soy resolves the issue. That is well documented and studied also. With chickens we are discussing a raw product.

I did include a few animal references in my list.

 

[chickenannie]

I know you're debating soybeans vs. not-soybeans, but just remember, RAW soybean is toxic to chickens. Soybeans must be roasted first before used as feed.

 

[Eggseronious]

Soybean meal runs 40% OR 48% protein. The difference is the type of processing.

 

[kstaven]

And depending on the source not all soy meals are roasted. Have run across that twice now.

 

[Eggseronious]

Quote:
Soybeans that are not roasted are way lower in protein, plus they are too high in price to feed.

 

[kstaven]

For most of us with large #'s of birds that may be true eggs. But you need to remember that a large percentage of this board is 6 chickens and under. Many Here feed chickens better and more diverse diets than some people feed their kids. That is something I always try to consider and thus the potential of the uninitiated going to a health supply and buying raw soy or soy meal is very real. Would rather not see a person with sick or dead birds because of things like that if I can help it.

 

[digitS']

Quote:
Point very well taken.

I'm not at all sure what various processing techniques convert some of these substances so that they are less of a concern. (read, "not at all sure"

) Heat is, at least, one of them. And, antinutrients, for example, aren't only a problem in soybeans but are also found in other legumes to a greater or lesser extent.

Heat is generated just in the extrusion process in making commercial feeds. Pasteurizing temperatures are often reached in the feed batches prior to extrusion, also.

I very much like the idea of cooking our diverse home feeds. Barnyard Dawg uses a rice cooker - that would be a very low energy method.

Steve