splash x black sumatras all making black?

[tadkerson]

Quote:
true... but we have them here also... Henk has been a good teacher, wies, sonoran silkies, Mrs. KazJaps, all good people do you know where has Dr. Ron Okimoto gone? is he still working for the private sector?

No I do not know. I think he is still working for Cobb-Vantress.

Tim

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
true...

it could be a combination of genes that makes the color look splash or very diluted blue...

Mr. Henk is breeding Platinum blue color to his flock by combining Blue(Bl/bl) and Het Dun... depending on the bird it can look almost splash...

here are some of his Platinum Blue pullets





now since Platinum Blue are Heterozygous for Blue and Dun this means that if mated to a Self Black bird some birds will be all black(about 12%) so what are the odds of having nearly 99% of them being black and just one blue?


Quote:
Yeah, that´s why he is keeping a Low profile as I think he is working in Top Secret genetics department and that´s where the money if for big guys like cobb-vantress

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

OK,
Got a follow up from the man with the sumatras in question.
Sent Tim's " blue killer" theory to him.
he said sounds like a great possibility, however I was wrong in what he bred it to, thought was just a pair, but he had bred it to 3 different lines of sumatra hens already this year.
1 hatchery stock
and a couple from breeders in Texas. So they have been multi line bred not just 1 pair, though all sumatras.
he did say he had some different breed black hens he'd try the male over just to see what happened.

 

[championsumatra]

If you breed a black with a splash you will have dark blues or blacks. and if you breed a dark blue with a black you will end up with all blacks.

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

I'd have to say that's not exactly correct.
splash to black is supposed to = 100% blue
blue to black = 50% black and blue

Doesnt really matter the breed or shade of blue, that's just how the blue gene works.

That's what was so odd about the results this man was getting last year.
Havent heard back from him this season, not sure what he ended up with this go around.

 

[championsumatra]

it happens I bred a black with a dark blue and all of them where blacks.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

it happens I bred a black with a dark blue and all of them where blacks.

Might have looked black, and with small numbers of hatchlings they might all BE black, but chances are that some are genetically a blue, but dark enough that they look black. Try taking some of them and pairing with splash. CHance are that some of the offspring will also be splash. And that will demonstrate that what looks black isn't necessarily so. Blues can exhibit green sheen, especially ones with darker hackles/saddle, etc.

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

that's right. . The average ratio is 50/50. That doesnt mean you'll get that every time. It's just an average to expect from the genes you have in that pairing.
Thing is from what this man was saying, the color he was getting from the pairs shouldnt have been possible.
But yes blue to black can hatch a clutch of all one or the other. Just depends on where the blue gene goes. A blue bird only has 1 copy of the blue gene, so it only goes to 50% of it's offspring. Some times none will get it, other times all will get it, but the average is 50-50. If you breed a lot off that pairing though, you'll find they come out to be pretty close to the average ratio over a full season of hatching.

now on a splash, it has 2 copies of blue in it. So every chick it produces will have 1 copy of the blue gene. So when bred to black like this guy did, all chicks should be blue.

and yes Sonoran,
I have blue d'anvers that from a pic everyone swears are black, but they arent, they are like you were saying, very very dark blues with a shine to the hackles and saddles. But they still have the duller main body color. Same on my dun quail. Untrained eyes cant tell they have the dun gene in them, but to those who know what to look at, it's obvious.

That's just how those two colors work, various shades, and such, but they are what they are genotypically speaking

Champ Sumatra

here's the blue breeding average ratios. Works the same on dun, just change blue and splash to dun and khaki

black to blue= 50% each
black to splash= 100% blue
blue to blue = 50% blue and 25% each black and splash
blue to splash =50% each
splash to splash= 100% splash

 

[championsumatra]

yes you guys are right. I don't know why they turned out like that. but they are not dark blue they are black.
.

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

yep, it's just an odds game. No set law saying you'll get it 50/50 every time. Just depends on who got what from the parents during fertilization.

Like I said, I've had clutches hatch all one or the other, but in the long run it all evens out. Next batch you set from the same parents could hatch all blue.