Spots inside beak - is this canker?

[MsLisaG]

Hi all - my 7 mo. old BO has two little white/yellow spots inside her beak, one on each side. Her tongue and throat are clear, she's laying (very well!) and eating/drinking normally. Her activity is normal as well, but I want to catch whatever this is. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Here are a couple of pics of the spots - the black stuff is just dirt.

 

[MsLisaG]

I should add that I was able to touch the spots - they are firm, not squishy at all.

 

[2greenboyz]

Hi MsLisaG - it doesn't sound like she has any other symptoms, so what made you look inside her mouth? (I mean, did you suspect a problem?). Now that you see those, can you look further down and see anything else - esp on roof of mouth or down throat? I know that's not easy to do, use a pen light and try to get a glimpse. I just want to make sure there are no more spots. Are there any other symptoms you've noticed ? Anything different in behavior. Does she free range, is she exposed to wild birds esp pigeons, and of your other 5 birds (?) what are their ages? Do any of those have these spots?

I'm not going to say it's canker just yet, not a very good pic, but it is something to keep an eye on. You are doing a great job of observation - there are pics on the forum of birds that do have canker. You can check them out and see if it fits your situation. There are treatments, easiest if caught early.

Edit - Sorry - I see her throat and tongue are clear you said. Check roof of mouth too. See if you can get clearer pic. Thx.

 

[MsLisaG]

That's the clearest pic I can get, sorry. The roof of her mouth is clean. I noticed the spot out of the corner of my eye when she was panting. (It was 106 here today!) She doesn't pant excessively though. She free ranges in our yard, there are a few wild birds around, mostly scrub jays, doves, and a few crows. Not many pigeons, but there might be the occasional one here and there.

The silkie is about 5 months, and the rest of the flock are about 3 months. Looked at all of them, and they are totally clear and acting just fine. I'd like to nip this before they are affected, if possible.

 

[2greenboyz]

It is possible to get a swab, usually taken from crop, and stick it under a microscope (sorry, I haven't done that but I have read about it). If it is canker, you will see the "little buggers" happily swimming about. That would be a definitive dx. There are videos on YouTube of what they look like.-- My computer is acting up, so do search on trichomonas gallinae or frounce. Anyway, hens do develop "resistance" of sorts to the organism although most people say they become carriers. According to my research, they are carriers b/c they have been exposed. They dont necessarily pass it on. (Kind of like cocci, another protozoa). But, you can prevent it by administering copper sulfate in their water for 3 days a month. Be very careful on the dose, it can be toxic.

Common treatment is called Metronidazole (Flagyl) which is commonly found as Fish Zole, 250mg once per day for 5 to 7 days. It tends to have wide safety margin. If you are sure this is what the bird has, I'd try this first.

Please don't assume that's what your bird has though. You have a little time to decide and research the problem. I would try to be sure of what you are treating for. Rule out other diseases first - pox being one.

sorry about the color diff - I copied and pasted and it continued the formatting. Dang computers

 

[MsLisaG]

Thanks. I'm not exactly sure what it is yet, because the spots are so small and local. I don't want to assume it's canker yet, but I will definitely keep an eye on it.

I'm hoping that someone will see this and know for sure what it is!

 

[2greenboyz]

Thought I'd send you this link
http://www.pet-informed-veterinary-advice-online.com/trichomonas.html#trich-prevention

I have more links also but I don't want to overwhelm you with stuff (just yet) The above link talks about how to ID if it is trich and also the microscope method. You can also check out my story (sorry there's no pics of her disease) she did have the yellow spots. https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/657272/final-necropsy-rpt-go-to-last-post-nightmare-with-canker it is kind of long.....

I do not recommend removing or trying to peel away the growths. If you do, it can bleed, number one, and number two, it leaves it open for secondary infection. Some people say to use Betadine or iodine that is up to you. You will see that in your research but in my experience it stresses the bird terribly. So it's your call. Anyway, keep us posted.....

 

[MsLisaG]

Thanks for all the info. I'm not entirely sure it's canker yet, but I can't find anything else besides pox that it might be and I'm fairly sure it's not pox. I don't want to wait until it's worse though, so I have ordered some of the fish zole just to be safe. The spots don't seem any larger today and her eating, drinking, and activity seem fine. While she is being treated, do I need to toss her eggs?

 

[MsLisaG]

Update - it is in fact canker. I just looked at her again closely this evening and there is a small spot starting down in her throat. I paid for rush shipping on the fish zole, so hopefully it will be here soon. I have isolated her and disinfected the waterer, I will disinfect the coop and area tomorrow. Hopefully since I noticed it early she will have a good chance at recovery.

 

[2greenboyz]

Dang - So sorry you have to go through this. But I am astounded that you caught it so early - most catch it after it is well developed and difficult to control. You'll have a better chance of success since it was caught early. I am still checking on whether you have to hold back the eggs. Good question. Wait until we can get confirmation on this. I'll get back or maybe someone else can get in here too.

It is good that you isolated her, but the others may have been exposed also. For this, copper sulfate is generally used as a preventative.http://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com/acidified_copper_sulfate.html That is not to say they will get it, but from reading the posts most will use it once a month just to make sure. What I did, since I felt my newbies had been exposed, was I ordered something called Berimax and I gave it to the pullets at 12 weeks of age for 5 days. I thought they would hate it, I tasted it and it tasted terrible. They thought it was kool-aid! No problems with them drinking it and haven't seen any indications in any of my girls so far. If you want more info on that let me know. On the FishZole I wanted to tell you, I tried hiding it in a piece of moist bread. The first one she just gobbled up. Tried it the 2nd day, she didn't get the whole dose b/c she refused it. Maybe she had learned that I was trying to trick her I don't know. I did discover that the pill dissolves quite quickly and will just disappear and you cannot tell how much they ate. I remember having to run back in the house, split one and go back out and put it down her throat to make sure she got the full dose. So she probably got more than she was supposed to. After that, I just took an eyedropper and cup of water, put the pill in her mouth as far back as I could, then gave her some drops of water. That turned out to be the easiest. As I said, FishZole has a wide safety margin, but the normal dose for a standard is one 250mg pill once a day. If you are concerned about spreading the dose, you could split it and give 1/2 of the pill two times a day. As far as sanitizing, the bug lives best in water, it needs moist conditions. So it spreads easiest through their water or if a bird has it and drools or picks up a piece of food, tongues it and drops it, then another one picks it up right after, now it has been exposed. So anything moist, it doesn't do well when exposed to the elements.

I'll check on the withdrawal period for the eggs for you.