Standard Cornish vs. Cornish-X

[Brunty_Farms]

I'm just playing actually hearing the back in forth of the parties is very educating!

You know, that is the most important thing. I think a lot of us actually forget how many people actually read these threads and stay out of them. However the information that comes out of a thread like this is amazing, which it is important to keep it civil. So many people learn from good arguments like these, as long as feelings stay out of it, it's healthy to have a good debate.

Buster- I don't know how you get sucked into these things either, I thought you were one of the good guys on the forum? LOL...

 

[Brunty_Farms]

Quote:
Depends on your goals and your personal perspective.

You have to admit, they are a work of art. You don't have to like them to respect them, I think deep down... you really like them too!

COME on say it... you know they are something unique... at least give me that.

 

[Bossroo]

Quote:
Because I think he is wrong. I also think it is inconsistent of him to raise them. In Michael Pollan's The Omnivore's Dilemma, he makes a big deal out of not shipping Pollan a steak because of the carbon footprint. This impressed Pollan so much he made the pilgrimage from his home in the SF Bay area to Swoope VA and spend a week or two working with Salatin on his place. Meanwhile, Salatin bashed industrial practices and the food system that ships food all over the place, then raises the quintessential industrial bird and has it shipped in ever season. He even speaks of losses in the range Jeff reports of 10 to 15% due to health reasons.

On that regard, I'm much more in alignment with the views of Tim and Liz Young of Nature's Harmony Farm in Georgia.

I will be raising a batch of CX this spring, along with some Freedom Rangers (which I also don't believe is a sustainable bird, by the way) just to see them for myself. I have mixed feelings about that, since for me it is wrong and inhumane to raise them, but feel I should for my own education. They will be raised in separate tractors from some Buckeyes and Delawares and my Dark Cornish, and I will closely observe all five breeds for their strengths and weaknesses.

I toyed with the idea of letting half of them grow to adulthood, but decided that was really pushing it, ethically. I feel guilty enough ordering them as it is.

What ??? You will not raise the naked necks that your new heros Tim and Liz Young praise and raise to the Label Rouge standard of France ? Do you have enough fertile lands to grow all of your own organic grains to feed and grow out a free range organic Cornish or Buckeye chicken or even a naked neck to slaughter age of at least 84 days to yield a carcass of 3-3 1/2 pounds to feed the local population. Using their model and obviously yours ... How do you expect to supply free range organic chicken to a local population like in my area approaching 1.5 million people ?

 

[Brunty_Farms]

Quote:
Because I think he is wrong. I also think it is inconsistent of him to raise them. In Michael Pollan's The Omnivore's Dilemma, he makes a big deal out of not shipping Pollan a steak because of the carbon footprint. This impressed Pollan so much he made the pilgrimage from his home in the SF Bay area to Swoope VA and spend a week or two working with Salatin on his place. Meanwhile, Salatin bashed industrial practices and the food system that ships food all over the place, then raises the quintessential industrial bird and has it shipped in ever season. He even speaks of losses in the range Jeff reports of 10 to 15% due to health reasons.

On that regard, I'm much more in alignment with the views of Tim and Liz Young of Nature's Harmony Farm in Georgia.

I will be raising a batch of CX this spring, along with some Freedom Rangers (which I also don't believe is a sustainable bird, by the way) just to see them for myself. I have mixed feelings about that, since for me it is wrong and inhumane to raise them, but feel I should for my own education. They will be raised in separate tractors from some Buckeyes and Delawares and my Dark Cornish, and I will closely observe all five breeds for their strengths and weaknesses.

I toyed with the idea of letting half of them grow to adulthood, but decided that was really pushing it, ethically. I feel guilty enough ordering them as it is.

Your too darn much Buster... I try so hard to see some of your reasons but I just can't come to grips.

Frist off shipping a steak from Virginia to California is totally not sustainable by no means. However shipping chicks from Southern Ohio to Virginia is pretty darn close... that is within a 4 hour driving distance. That is sustainable by anyones definition. What is not sustainable it trying to be a Monopoly like your saying... basically because he doesn't hatch and raise his own chicks (same here with me) I'm not being sustainable? How? Why is supporting a local business so bad? I don't want to hatch chicks every week... I HATE it. Way to much work. SO why not order them from hatcheries that are within hours from our locations? Makes perfect sense!

Boss had it pointed out earlier.... The feed you buy has way more oil coated on it then the chicks that you could be purchasing from a local hatchery. Very naive to believe that by buying chicks from a local hatchery that I'm not being sustainable. Would it be better if I rode my bike to go pick up the chicks, it would suck but I still don't think it would be good enough.

Also, Tim and Liz... I've been following there site for about a year or so and they have some very unrealistic goals. I laugh at some of the things they do, but I do respect their decisions to do what they are trying to do. I will keep an eye out to see how their progress is. But honestly, they have a more carbon footprint than I do. They deliver everything to Atlanta which is a lot of gasoline... everything I sell is picked up at the farm or at a market... my market is about 3 minutes away. Everybody is local... no gas. To me, they are very hypocritical about what they preach.

Can't wait to hear your results come spring/summer.

 

[Brunty_Farms]

Quote:
Because I think he is wrong. I also think it is inconsistent of him to raise them. In Michael Pollan's The Omnivore's Dilemma, he makes a big deal out of not shipping Pollan a steak because of the carbon footprint. This impressed Pollan so much he made the pilgrimage from his home in the SF Bay area to Swoope VA and spend a week or two working with Salatin on his place. Meanwhile, Salatin bashed industrial practices and the food system that ships food all over the place, then raises the quintessential industrial bird and has it shipped in ever season. He even speaks of losses in the range Jeff reports of 10 to 15% due to health reasons.

On that regard, I'm much more in alignment with the views of Tim and Liz Young of Nature's Harmony Farm in Georgia.

I will be raising a batch of CX this spring, along with some Freedom Rangers (which I also don't believe is a sustainable bird, by the way) just to see them for myself. I have mixed feelings about that, since for me it is wrong and inhumane to raise them, but feel I should for my own education. They will be raised in separate tractors from some Buckeyes and Delawares and my Dark Cornish, and I will closely observe all five breeds for their strengths and weaknesses.

I toyed with the idea of letting half of them grow to adulthood, but decided that was really pushing it, ethically. I feel guilty enough ordering them as it is.

What ??? You will not raise the naked necks that your new heros Tim and Liz Young praise and raise to the Label Rouge standard of France ? Do you have enough fertile lands to grow all of your own organic grains to feed and grow out a free range organic Cornish or Buckeye chicken or even a naked neck to slaughter age of at least 84 days to yield a carcass of 3-3 1/2 pounds to feed the local population. Using their model and obviously yours ... How do you expect to supply free range organic chicken to a local population like in my area approaching 1.5 million people ?

They are not trying to, just trying to feed a niche of people. I don't see their goals anymore realistic than I see the next guy. They have a tough road cut out for them, they either came from a lot of money and are doing this for fun or they have went into an extreme amount of debt.

Bottom line, boss you right... I never thought I would say that!!! LOL... But in order to make a dent in the commercialization of poultry you need farmers like Joel that are willing to turn out a few million dollars a year in gross profits. We need million dollar poultry farmers that do it right.... and the way to do that is with the cornish x. There are bigger problems out there than ordering chicks from an outside source. Our food system is broke... and we need to take one step at a time. Tim and Liz are running into the organic/local food movement... not crawling into it. Not a good idea... as you would say.... "been there, done that"! I've been doing this for 10 years now, and it takes time to establish a business. It also takes time to learn.

 

[Buster52]

Quote:
Might want to take a closer look at my post and consider editing, Jeff.

 

[Brunty_Farms]

OOPS.... sorry

 

[paduanchook]

I feel you so narrowly focused on proving that they are the bird you
say they are, that you are missing our point completely. I'm not doubting
you at all, but look at the setup in those pics. That is not practical for most
of us. We don't have that kind of space, resources or time!
We are not saying that YOU can't raise the bird you describe, but some of
have less to work with and less time to do it. I have raised Cornish x. I didn't like
them. My other birds took less effort and thrived with minimal intervention
my birds raise their own young, and provide entertainment as well as meat
and eggs it works for me on a tight schedule with minimal effort
what you do works for you

 

[KatyTheChickenLady]

my 1 year old Cornish Cross hens.
20lbs each on free range diet only.
Currently laying fertile eggs by natural mating.
raised in a backyard setting.

 

[CARS]

Quote:
20 pounds

WOW!!