Standard of Perfection

[3riverschick]

Hi Dr. Miller,
Thanks so much for the nice reply and the info about Judge Card and Judge Broomhead! I will go looking for his other books! You wrote:, "Like the wing, the tail too for similar reasons can tell a lot about the structure of the chicken.". What do they tell us? I understand about the misplacement of wing, tail and feathers of such. But what do wing and tail tell us about the structure of the chicken? Do they have any importence regarding productive capability?

========== A second question ============

I am just starting to learn about capability and capacity. It's a fascinating subject. I know coarse skin is associated with underlying fat. That the fat and the fact that fatty coarse skin doesn't strech are attributes of a poor layer.
That skin of fine texture is associated with lack of fat under the skin and that such skin streches to accomodate room for the organs when the hen is laying. As such, is one mark of a good layer. What I don't know, is how to tell coarse skin from fine textured skin. Please could you enlighten me?
Thanks so much for sharing with us!
Best Regards,
Karen Tewart

 

[Maggiesdad]

And also along with Karen's questions, WHEN in the chicken's lifespan does this wing and tail judging and culling occur? Is it a set number of weeks, or is it the breeder's best judgment of when it takes place?

As a novice I would hate to cull a perfectly good bird because of a normal molt or change of feathers...

 

[Robert Blosl]

http://cdn.backyardchickens.com/e/e2/600x450px-LL-e2fcd828_DSC02182.jpeg

I got a personnel message yesterday from a person asking about capacity in Rhode Island Red large fowl and how you go about getting that into your line. There are some good pictures of females that show the big body or brick shape that you want in a Red large fowl. Wid Card use to go to shows and draw pictures for the breeders on how important type was for showing but for egg production. He was trying to teach them how to get a 200 egg pullet flock in his travels. He was the Sectary of the Rhode Island Red Club in the 1920s and put a bunch of ads in Poultry Magazines one month offering free information on Rhode Island Reds. When he got done on a one week trip judging around the country when he got home he had something like 5,000 letters asking for this information. When it was all said in done during the hay day of his term as Sectary he had 5,000 Rhode Island Red Club members and 45,000 people where subscribing to the Rhode Island Red Journal out of Waverly Iowa. Not bad after he took over the club that had been run down by a bad Club Sectary. There is a secret I learned from one master breeder to improve egg laying ability and capacity it worked for My strain of White Plymouth Rocks it takes about three years to pull off if you have the patients. It has to do with the wing feathers, tail feathers in the growth in the brooder box. bob

 

[kathyinmo]

I got a personnel message yesterday from a person asking about capacity in Rhode Island Red large fowl and how you go about getting that into your line. There are some good pictures of females that show the big body or brick shape that you want in a Red large fowl. Wid Card use to go to shows and draw pictures for the breeders on how important type was for showing but for egg production. He was trying to teach them how to get a 200 egg pullet flock in his travels. He was the Sectary of the Rhode Island Red Club in the 1920s and put a bunch of ads in Poultry Magazines one month offering free information on Rhode Island Reds. When he got done on a one week trip judging around the country when he got home he had something like 5,000 letters asking for this information. When it was all said in done during the hay day of his term as Sectary he had 5,000 Rhode Island Red Club members and 45,000 people where subscribing to the Rhode Island Red Journal out of Waverly Iowa. Not bad after he took over the club that had been run down by a bad Club Sectary. There is a secret I learned from one master breeder to improve egg laying ability and capacity it worked for My strain of White Plymouth Rocks it takes about three years to pull off if you have the patients. It has to do with the wing feathers, tail feathers in the growth in the brooder box. bob

 

[3riverschick]

Hi Robert,
Any way we could get you to share?
Thank you,
Karen

 

[crankster76]

oh yes,please share....
Kathy ,I just think that roo is too cool! mine is reverse of that. black on top and blue on the bottom.....

 

[WallTenters]

Sorry I have not had a chance to read this whole thread. But I did have a question for all, and hope it hasn't been answered yet. If so, just refer me to the page number and I'll get there eventually.

In many horse breeds (just to use as an example) one can find quality by taking measurements of the different body parts. For example to define the Arabian standard of perfection you might look at the length of crest IN RELATION TO length of hip, shortness of back, etc. and all these traits being in a certain balance. I have seen several useful diagrams in different species and then breeds of how these perfect animals might be put together.

Has anyone given considering to adding such information to the standard? Something that says "back is 1/2 the measurement as the back to ground" or something like that? I think these could greatly influence the breeds. Leaving it in some sort of ratio is always nice as it allows some strains to build slightly larger or smaller to suit environment, purpose and personal taste, yet the silhouette would be unchanged.

Any thoughts?

 

[Oregon Blues]

It's very difficult to discover what is correct structure in birds and why. With dogs and horses, thee are hundreds of books on structure and movement. Nothing on poultry. The SOP is helpful, but not by much. Better than nothing.

 

[Robert Blosl]

I dont think that will happen in the standard. Its simple however. Years ago when we had slide projectors and slides I took a picture of a Rhode Island red out of my black and white standard. Then the slides came in and I projected it onto the wall to the size of a normal 18 month old rhode island red cock bird and hen. The cock bird and the picture where about right so I measured the size of the slide on the white sheet on the wall. The length from the beak to the end of tail was 24 inches the distance from the ground to the top of his head or top of the comb was 24 inches. The width of back was about seven inches. Did not measure the female slide. I just produced females that would lay 2 1/2 half oz eggs at ten months and lay ed about 200 eggs per pullet year. The size of the males was about one to one and half pounds over weight. Some of my friends had males longer than mine about three to four inches but they were not balanced they where all tail.

Today I don't know if you can do this with a digital camera. I took a picture of a new fishing lure in my digital camera this moaning put the chip in my computer sent the picture to photo bucket and in about one minute I posted the picture of the fishing lure on the forum fishing board for a guy to see. Thats pretty impressive. In two minutes you can post a picture from the hand to the site. I had to wait a week for the slides to come back to the drug store when I did the measurement thing thirty years ago. The black and white pictures in the standard are pretty good in size and comparison to the real bird. Mr. Reese took a slide like I did and cut out a plywood silo wet and painted it dark brown and had it hanging in his chicken house. It looked like the real thing. bob

 

[3riverschick]

Sorry I have not had a chance to read this whole thread. But I did have a question for all, and hope it hasn't been answered yet. If so, just refer me to the page number and I'll get there eventually.

In many horse breeds (just to use as an example) one can find quality by taking measurements of the different body parts. For example to define the Arabian standard of perfection you might look at the length of crest IN RELATION TO length of hip, shortness of back, etc. and all these traits being in a certain balance. I have seen several useful diagrams in different species and then breeds of how these perfect animals might be put together.

Has anyone given considering to adding such information to the standard? Something that says "back is 1/2 the measurement as the back to ground" or something like that? I think these could greatly influence the breeds. Leaving it in some sort of ratio is always nice as it allows some strains to build slightly larger or smaller to suit environment, purpose and personal taste, yet the silhouette would be unchanged.

Any thoughts?

Hi,
Judge Broomhead addresses this in part, in regard to egg laying abiliity.
Look at this post:

Page 14,
post #138 of 159
Go to the URL for the book titled "The Light Sussex", check page 6 where he relates the actual mathematical dimensions for the "super" layer.
Best,
Karen