still have lameness in ducklings

[ruralmom]

the yard was clean of rancid feed and did not have a sour oder but that doesn"t say they did not get into some before. Should I keep up with the niacin, vitamins for the duration of their lives or just until mature? Not out of the woods yet but there is a light at the end of the tunnels.

 

[Red Maple Farms]

Quote:
I read the advertisement for Purina flock raiser:

A 20%-protein nutrient-rich ration that provides top starting, growing and finishing nutrition for a mixed flock of chickens, ducks and geese from hatch until laying age (18-20 weeks) and for turkeys from 8-10 weeks until laying age of 18-20 weeks.

I use a Purina feed base called Country Acres Poultry Blend in my formula. The information on the bag says it is designed for chickens, ducks and geese also. Furthermore, I use a formula mix as designed by Purina. In the winter when there is absolutely no ability for the ducks to forage, they are still fine.

I don't understand it. Everybody has limping ducks except for me, and I don't play the brewer's yeast or niacin game. I think the problem lies elsewhere.

Do your ducks have bowed legs? That is a sign of niacin deficiency.

 

[FenDruadin]

Red Maple Farms--

I understand you've never had a problem with niacin deficiency, and I think that's terrific. That doesn't mean it's never a problem.

Dave Holderread, whose waterfowl farm is one of the largest duck breeders in the world and who has been hatching and growing ducklings for several decades and who is the author of Storey's Guide to Raising Ducks, lists niacin as a leading cause of leg problems in ducks. He knows this from personal, hands-on experience with thousands of birds over several decades. No, it's not the only cause, but when you don't know what the cause is, it's always a great first step to try, and often it works.

Yes, the labelling on many feeds says they are suitable for ducks when they are not. That's marketing--most companies will say what sells their product if they can get away with it, and since it's hard to PROVE that the feed is inadequate for ducks, they get away with saying it's fine. And most ducks *will* be fine on chicken rations--nutritional deficiencies don't show symptoms in every duck. Humans too can have vitamin deficiencies for years or forever without ever actually showing symptoms. But in those people and ducks who do show the symptoms, it can be devastating.

In addition to the written experience of one of the world's top waterfowl experts, there is also the written experience of Cherie Langlois, author of "Tending a Small-Scale Flock for Pleasure and Profit," a publication of Hobby Farms, who likewise writes about leg problems caused by niacin deficiencies and the importance of providing ducklings with more niacin than chicken feeds provide. And if that's not enough, there is the experience of dozens (maybe hundreds) of duck breeders on these boards. I am not among the top experts by any means--I've only been raising ducks for three years, and selling them for one season. But I'll add my experience to the list and say that the one time I thought I would skip the bothersome step of adding niacin to the feed because I thought they would forage for enough insects and such to cover the deficiency, I *did* end up with some with trembling legs, and the legs improved within two days of improving their niacin intake. Furthermore, I had a call from someone recently who is raising some ducks from me on Flock Raiser, and one of his little ones was having leg problems. I recommended the niacin as a first step and the next day he called to say his duck had recovered.

It's great that you're having good luck feeding only chicken feed to your babies. I feed only chicken feed to my adult birds with good success, as do many others. But many people run into problems using only chicken feed for babies, unless they add extra niacin. Also, niacin deficiency doesn't immediately show up as bowed legs--that is what happens if it goes uncorrected. An early case will often show as trembling or weakness in the legs which, as you rightly point out, can be caused by many different things, but niacin is a good first step to take in trying to find the cause.

I don't mean to start a debate or to be ugly about this, but I think it's important to clarify because it would be a real shame if someone's ducks were to suffer lifelong lameness that could have been avoided if only they had taken the niacin recommendation seriously. No, niacin is NOT a cure-all. But it is a valid, important consideration when dealing with lameness in ducks.

 

[Red Maple Farms]

Quote:
I don't have any babies, but rather ducklings, hens and drakes. This is a working farm.

If you have proof that Purina is falsely asserting that their product is a nutitional diet for ducks, then you should sue them and retire off the money.

Even though my brother and his son are both veterinarians (Cornell and U Penn respectively), I guess their advice and my experience doesn't match up to the hundreds of pet duck breeders on this board. I'll ask these schools to refund their money.

I also think it is a real shame that somebody would treat a limping duck with vitamins thinking it is a niacin deficiency, when it could be more serious like avian botulism which can kill quite quickly.

 

[FenDruadin]

Sorry Red Maple--I didn't mean to be personal. I am certainly not saying that your experience and the knowledge of the vets in your family is not valid (ack, for the double negative: what I mean is, yes, the experience and knowledge of vets IS valid). In fact, I agree with a great deal of your advice, and am glad there are folks on here with more experience than I have, and with knowledgeable avian vets to refer to. It makes the experience better for everyone, and helps a lot of folks with their problems.

I completely agree that botulism, spoiled feed, mold, and many other things can be the cause and should be examined by all means. I just don't want folks to ignore the possibility of niacin deficiency, because it is a very real possibility and very common among ducks who are fed strict chick diets as babies.

And by the way, if you've got ducklings, you've got babies. Duckling is just another way to say "duck baby." I use the term "baby" in contrast to the word "adult" to differentiate between ages without necessarily referring to species and gender. Since we're talking about ducks here, I assumed most folks would understand that by "baby" I meant "baby duck" and by "adult" I meant "adult duck regardless of gender." Sorry for the confusion.

 

[ruralmom]

Well, the good news continues. I cannot tell her from the others except for her smaller size. I think the bigger pond helped with 'aquatic therepy' to her leg and now she is running with the rest of them. I pick up new brewers yeast today and plan to continue it's use weekly for a few weeks and then monthly. Thanks for all the support.

 

[FenDruadin]

Yay! I'm so glad to hear the good news. Whatever it was that worked, I'm glad it did.

 

[Sherrys zoo]

One thing that I do with mine (adults or babies), when they seem to be limping or struggling, is isolate them in their own area where they have clean, dry bedding and can have easy access to food and fresh water. I have an indoor dog run which works well for this, but have also just fenced them into their own section of the run. I have some portable 'houses' that I can move in so they have cover at night. I almost always see improvement in a few days, though it does sound like your symptoms are likely something worse than what I normally deal with (i.e., beginnings of bumblefoot, strained muscles?, or just weaker ducklings that have a hard time competing with the rest of their siblings). They usually aren't keen on being separated from the rest of the flock (and all the other ducks are usually concerned about what's happening to them), but it does seem to give them a better opportunity to heal and gain strength -- and sometimes I allow them one 'buddy' so they aren't totally isolated in the process.

I do the same their not aline & dont get even weaker due to using up their limited energy til l can hopefully get a handle on whats going on

 

[Sherrys zoo]

Quote:

I think I had a problem similar to what you described. I bought some ready made feed from the local mill in the Spring for my ducks, and within a few days they began to go lame, dragging themselves along the ground. It wasn't until I started buying my feed freshly ground in 500 pound increments, and consuming it within several weeks that the problem went away. I've also had problems with low water levels in my pond during the peak of summer, and as previously mentioned the spilled feed going rancid.

By the way, make sure they have plenty of fresh water to drink and plenty of shade. That is about all you can do for botulism other than removing the source of the problem.

Toxiban liquid charcoal medicine frm ebay or amazon put in pet taxi or cage = 1 eyedropper 2 times a day for 3 days - with rest in cage fresh food & water that should do it if its botulism