tadkerson: I do not know where cgmccary got the information or how he or she interpreted the information. In my book buckeye are black tailed red, light brown leghorn are B B Red and dark brown leghorns are partridge. The Dark brown leghorn's E locus is called brown now or e^b; at one time the brown allele was called partridge (e^p) but changed to brown. This partridge is not to be confused with the partridge variety (partrideg rock) which is penciled.
They are correct in that buckeye are not a columbian red- this does not mean they are not columbian restricted; they are columbian restricted. If I am on the same page as cgmccary, a columbian red would be a completely red bird. Buckeye have a black tail-therefore buck eye are black-tailed red.
I believe cgmccary was referring to columbian as in silver columbian (columbian rock)- a gold columbian would be buff columbian ( brahma).
Buckeye genotype- for mahogany red birds
wheaten ey/ey or ewh/ewh, columbian Co/Co, mahogany Mh/Mh, gold s+/s+ or s+/¬_w , yellow skin w/w , yellow shanks due to w, ey and Id , slow feathering K/K or K/_w, dermal melanin inhibitor Id/Id or Id/_W, pea comb P/P r+/r+, genes for red ear lobes, genes for reddish bay eye color, any red under color is due to wheaten and mahogany, genes for brown egg color o+/o+.
I do not know why the back under color (gray) would be different than the under color on the rest of the bird. The body type is similar to a cornish game and has been selected for through breeding.
I do not believe buckeye carry the dark brown gene. The color is different in wheaten and dark brown restricted birds- the color is not the red found in the buckeye but a burnt orange or reddish orange color.
Tim
Good afternoon, tadkerson. I am a "HE." The source of my information is Master Breeder of Brown Leghorns, Don Schrider. I think Don would disagree with you that "light brown leghorn are B B Red and dark brown leghorns are partridge." Don would say that is a good start from a textbook but is an oversimplification. I'll private you a better explanation if you want but don't want to stray too far off topic.
About Buckeyes and their color, Don adds, "Buckeyes do not have the clean black in tail and clean black in primaries and secondaries that we find in genetically clean Columbian color pattern. An ideal Buckeye has some red in the "black" sections of the black-tailed red pattern genes; like the red found in the tail of a good Buckeye." If you had ever seen good Buckeyes and looked at their tails, you'd know what I was talking about (others with good Buckeyes -- look at the male's tail feathers-- see the fringes of red blended in with black sheen?). The Red Columbian derivative / Black-tailed red pattern is not the complete genetic picture for the Buckeye. This is why the slate bar just in the Buckeye back is not in those sets of genes -- to say a Buckeye is Red Columbian or Black-Tailed Red is an over-simplification-- in other words, it is not the whole story. Buckeyes, best I can put it, are a form of Black-Tailed Red. Your analysis is useful, correct to a degree & more textbook, but it is just not a complete picture.
I don't have all the answers either. I just know what a Buckeye is not. You cannot pigeon hole the Buckeye into simple chicken genetics. It brings me to my thought I've had before that if the Buckeye, or one of the other old composite breeds (which we often believe could be re-made from the foundation breeds) were lost, it truly could not be recovered. The strains, the nuances, the things we don't know, we don't understand -- we do know, those sets of circumstances don't exist like they did in 1890 or so. If lost, you could make something that looked like a Buckeye using tadkerson's genetics, but the little special traits, small things those who specially breed them, that we notice, would be lost & not a true Buckeye.
Back on the topic of the OP: there is no official down color for the Buckeye. Generally, Buckeye chick down looks similar to a RIR chick down but there are variations, all acceptable, from light to dark, black stripe here or there. From my experience, I haven't noticed a correlation between chick down color variations and adult plumage. Others have said they notice some correlation. In other words, don't use another brain cell analyzing down color. I would not be alarmed unless I got something really unusual like one chick I have this season. I had my Buckeyes penned up for two months before hatching this chick. I marked the eggs from whom they came as I picked them up, and I would believe my methods error proof. I'm starting to question whether I was out of it on a day, perhaps unconscious or something after a long, hard day at work/ office sleep-walking through my chores. Here, see for yourself. Look at this Buckeye chick:
as always,
Christopher McCary
They are correct in that buckeye are not a columbian red- this does not mean they are not columbian restricted; they are columbian restricted. If I am on the same page as cgmccary, a columbian red would be a completely red bird. Buckeye have a black tail-therefore buck eye are black-tailed red.
I believe cgmccary was referring to columbian as in silver columbian (columbian rock)- a gold columbian would be buff columbian ( brahma).
Buckeye genotype- for mahogany red birds
wheaten ey/ey or ewh/ewh, columbian Co/Co, mahogany Mh/Mh, gold s+/s+ or s+/¬_w , yellow skin w/w , yellow shanks due to w, ey and Id , slow feathering K/K or K/_w, dermal melanin inhibitor Id/Id or Id/_W, pea comb P/P r+/r+, genes for red ear lobes, genes for reddish bay eye color, any red under color is due to wheaten and mahogany, genes for brown egg color o+/o+.
I do not know why the back under color (gray) would be different than the under color on the rest of the bird. The body type is similar to a cornish game and has been selected for through breeding.
I do not believe buckeye carry the dark brown gene. The color is different in wheaten and dark brown restricted birds- the color is not the red found in the buckeye but a burnt orange or reddish orange color.
Tim
Good afternoon, tadkerson. I am a "HE." The source of my information is Master Breeder of Brown Leghorns, Don Schrider. I think Don would disagree with you that "light brown leghorn are B B Red and dark brown leghorns are partridge." Don would say that is a good start from a textbook but is an oversimplification. I'll private you a better explanation if you want but don't want to stray too far off topic.
About Buckeyes and their color, Don adds, "Buckeyes do not have the clean black in tail and clean black in primaries and secondaries that we find in genetically clean Columbian color pattern. An ideal Buckeye has some red in the "black" sections of the black-tailed red pattern genes; like the red found in the tail of a good Buckeye." If you had ever seen good Buckeyes and looked at their tails, you'd know what I was talking about (others with good Buckeyes -- look at the male's tail feathers-- see the fringes of red blended in with black sheen?). The Red Columbian derivative / Black-tailed red pattern is not the complete genetic picture for the Buckeye. This is why the slate bar just in the Buckeye back is not in those sets of genes -- to say a Buckeye is Red Columbian or Black-Tailed Red is an over-simplification-- in other words, it is not the whole story. Buckeyes, best I can put it, are a form of Black-Tailed Red. Your analysis is useful, correct to a degree & more textbook, but it is just not a complete picture.
I don't have all the answers either. I just know what a Buckeye is not. You cannot pigeon hole the Buckeye into simple chicken genetics. It brings me to my thought I've had before that if the Buckeye, or one of the other old composite breeds (which we often believe could be re-made from the foundation breeds) were lost, it truly could not be recovered. The strains, the nuances, the things we don't know, we don't understand -- we do know, those sets of circumstances don't exist like they did in 1890 or so. If lost, you could make something that looked like a Buckeye using tadkerson's genetics, but the little special traits, small things those who specially breed them, that we notice, would be lost & not a true Buckeye.
Back on the topic of the OP: there is no official down color for the Buckeye. Generally, Buckeye chick down looks similar to a RIR chick down but there are variations, all acceptable, from light to dark, black stripe here or there. From my experience, I haven't noticed a correlation between chick down color variations and adult plumage. Others have said they notice some correlation. In other words, don't use another brain cell analyzing down color. I would not be alarmed unless I got something really unusual like one chick I have this season. I had my Buckeyes penned up for two months before hatching this chick. I marked the eggs from whom they came as I picked them up, and I would believe my methods error proof. I'm starting to question whether I was out of it on a day, perhaps unconscious or something after a long, hard day at work/ office sleep-walking through my chores. Here, see for yourself. Look at this Buckeye chick:
as always,
Christopher McCary
