Stubborn Green Horse-Ground work

[shortgrass]

This reminded me of my old horse, Jack. I was 11 when we went "shopping" for a new horse, as I was outgrowing the "old fart" lol... I looked at and rode sooooo many horses, oh wow, it was ALOT. Liked a few of them, but the instant I saw Jack I was in love. He was in a corral with a donkey and a llama and he had the most beautiful tail dragging the ground. He rode like a dream, so slow and easy, a pleasure riders' dream, earning him the name "Cadillac Jack"... Eventually

We got him home and the first thing he did was refuse to unload, and pulled out half of his beautiful tail rearing back when I tried to hitch him to the trailer. He chewed his stall door to pieces, bit me on the behind whenever I cleaned his feet, and had what I thought was a vengeful habitbif lunging sideways, throwing me off.

We hated each other for a while there. But the more we rode together and the more we got to know each other and anticipate his moves, he started to respect me and I started to love him.

By the second year, we were best buds. I could jump on him in the pasture with no halter and ride, he felt my commands through my legs and heeded my voice. He was wonderful, just needed a little time to get acquainted with his new home and family.

That's not to say, that each spring when I got him out to ride for the first time after being cooped up all winter, he would give a little kick and have to run a bit, get those ants out of his pants

Oh, I miss that horse! Great memories


Give him time and more time, and all will turn out

 

[Ravynscroft]

Ugh, that's a toughie... been a LONG time since I dealt with a headstrong young horse... we had a red roan TWH filly that was the sweetest thing ever, until she thought you were even looking at getting on her back... she pinned her ears and bit anything within reach then... my uncle got a hard bite on his forearm and ever after that he tensed up around her so she kept him at bay rather easily... losing that confidence is a score for them...

First thing I would work on is getting that back... I know, easier said than done... but the fear of that bite will affect every interaction between you... hard to explain, but you've got to get into the mindset that what you fear is much worse than what will actually happen... I use this with all my animals and it really works well for me... don't be the alpha horse, be above the alpha horse... he can be alpha as long as he learns and understands that you are above and beyond challengeable... be assertive, but not aggressive...

My mind is fried and I can't think of the exact things we used to work with Maggie right now... I'll think on it and see what I can remember...


Maybe @perchie.girl might have some tips and ideas...

 

[Eggsoteric]

Quote:
Yes. You've had him checked out by a vet and his teeth have been floated recently? Do you know what his background is?

 

[res]

I agree with Eggsoteric that dental issues might be to blame. If it were my horse, I would be having a full sedation dental in order to fully open the mouth with a speculum. I have seen LOTS of issues that were found under a full sedation dental vs. a dental performed with the mouth only partially opened (non-sedation dentistry typically does not open the horse's mouth fully due to discomfort).

I would also suspect ulcers. The only way to dx ulcers with 100% certainty is by scoping, which is uber expensive - usually around $1k here in my area (NoVA, SoMD). You can also try a month of daily UlcerGaurd or GastroGaurd, but that is still ~$1K when you are lucky enough to find either product for $30/tube. If the behaviors stop after a month of daily treatment, then you assume ulcers and treat accordingly going forward. The barn I manage has several "ulcer" horses, and one of my personal horses has ulcers, as does one of my friends. We all manage them in different ways that work for us and each individual horse.

 

[mustangrooster]

Quote:
Your situation is definitely reminding me of the situation with my horse....I was in love when i first saw him, he too had a beautiful long tail dragging on the ground, and he was so sweet and docile, did amazing on the long reins and taking weight, he was perfect! Right, when it came to loading him, it was a nightmare! It looks as if he had never been loaded before. First we had him loaded on a horse truck with his other horse friend who we were buying at the time too.As well as our friends donkeys. It took about 1 hour to load, then that truck broke down so we had to switch to a horse trailer. It took ages to get him to load, but with the help of our horse guy friend, he loads like a dream now! He likes to lunge sideways and through me off......only once but still.... Your really giving me confidence that my little guy can be turned around and will be a good horse, so thankyou. Hes young, stubborn, and high spirited, but i think he can be a good horse, its there somewhere..... Ahh i love reading these little storys of yours Im thinking this may or may not be a new home, new rules, new pasture, new family kinda thing? Do you think having a set time schedule for each thing everyday will make him feel more secure? Rather than having no schedule? Or?

 

[mustangrooster]

Quote:
Hes out in the pasture all of the time----No stables, its too hot and mucky for a horse to be in stables in this weather. His old home had the same set up as we do. The original owner said he had been vet checked, im not too sure about the teeth...i cannot really remember... I know his background of the back of my hand, his original owner bred him herself with one of her Purebred Quarter horse mares and her Purebred Paint stallion (That stallion was as sweet and harmless a a ladybug, even had little kids riding him) Anyway he was raised in our climate, handled since day one, done everything from groundwork to lunging and long reining easily and he has the hardest feet i have ever seen, therefor not needing horse shoes (Not like he would need them anyway...) So he was never abused...he had his own little herd, but was the bottom ranked, and got picked on a bit.

 

[shortgrass]

Quote:
Your situation is definitely reminding me of the situation with my horse....I was in love when i first saw him, he too had a beautiful long tail dragging on the ground, and he was so sweet and docile, did amazing on the long reins and taking weight, he was perfect! Right, when it came to loading him, it was a nightmare! It looks as if he had never been loaded before. First we had him loaded on a horse truck with his other horse friend who we were buying at the time too.As well as our friends donkeys. It took about 1 hour to load, then that truck broke down so we had to switch to a horse trailer. It took ages to get him to load, but with the help of our horse guy friend, he loads like a dream now! He likes to lunge sideways and through me off......only once but still.... Your really giving me confidence that my little guy can be turned around and will be a good horse, so thankyou. Hes young, stubborn, and high spirited, but i think he can be a good horse, its there somewhere..... Ahh i love reading these little storys of yours Im thinking this may or may not be a new home, new rules, new pasture, new family kinda thing? Do you think having a set time schedule for each thing everyday will make him feel more secure? Rather than having no schedule? Or?

Well, first thing, definitely call the vet that did his last vet check and see if there was a thorough exam and anything to cause concern. We usually have the vet check done by our preferred vet before purchase. Reason being, for instance, I remember looking at a sorrel mare named Scotty during the whole "looking for a new horse" trek. Almost bought her before we found Jack, but the vet found a heart murmur the previous vet hadn't seen. So after that, my mom was super heavybon those vet checks. But IMHO, he's awfully young to have huge concerns on floating yet, but that subject is all at differing discretions lol, so I'll leave that subject alone To answer your questions, though... First, I found a great article that might address some of the issue. http://www.thehorse.com/articles/32915/study-some-horses-riders-have-co-being-relationship It's just a start, anyway Horses are so very very intelligent. I'd say more than a dog, even. They form immesne bonds with their penmates, other animals, and especially their riders. Jack and I had to bond before there would have been any kind of trustful cohabitation between us. Keep in mind, I was 11 when I got him. I was 19 and going away to college when we sold him to another young girl to start off her showing career with. Broke my heart but I knew it was the best thing for Jack. He would have been so angry and sad out at pasture all alone, and he was still young and had many years left in him. He lived for showing. When I got him, he had never seen the inside of a ring if any sort, much less an arena. He was 7, so not green broke, but not show broke for sure lol. I spent a lot of time out in the barn just dinking around; I was a teenager, so he became my therapy He would get all excited when I would give him a bath since he knew we would be going to a show the next day. And if I went more than two days without riding him, he would get antsy and have to buck a couple times first to let me know he was upset with me for neglecting him So, yes. They can indeed become "homesick" when they move homes and owners. They can lash out and be defiant and test you at every turn. That's where bonding can make a huge difference. Being a hard nosed trainer can get results, sure, but my best relationships have been with those horses that I bonded the best with. They can feel fear, and they can feel when their rider is unsure of that bond. If you don't trust them, they don't trust you. I think you'll find that as soon as he gets that he is yours, and there to stay, he'll start to bond more. He needs to be put in his place for his own good, much like a human child would get sent to time out for acting up at dinner He'll get that you are boss and when he knows you're confident that you can control him, he will concede to you. Don't let him think you're giving up on him yet

 

[res]

....But IMHO, he's awfully young to have huge concerns on floating yet, but that subject is all at differing discretions lol, so I'll leave that subject alone

....

It is often not a "floating" issue.... I have seen horses that have extra molars crowded in there, molars that have grown sideways, cracked/broken/rotten teeth, gum tissue that has grown up and is getting pinched by the bit, or pressure from the halter/bridle. None of these particular issues would have been discovered if the horse was not sedated and "opened up".

Equine dentistry goes WAY BEYOND just "floating".

 

[shortgrass]

It is often not a "floating" issue.... I have seen horses that have extra molars crowded in there, molars that have grown sideways, cracked/broken/rotten teeth, gum tissue that has grown up and is getting pinched by the bit, or pressure from the halter/bridle. None of these particular issues would have been discovered if the horse was not sedated and "opened up".

Equine dentistry goes WAY BEYOND just "floating".

Oh, most definitely. I just addressed floating, since it was specifically mentioned several times. I also agreed and encouraged contact with the previous vet, just in case. The most telling factor in that, though, in my experience anyway, is if he's off his feed. If he's eating fine and having no other telling factors other than an attitude problem, I would still attribute most of his issues to being young and in a new place. Worthy of looking at all angles, though, for sure

 

[chickens really]

I would never say you do not know what your doing.....Your dealing with a young horse who thinks he can push you around.....

I moved my Horses to my Step fathers place, years ago...He had a 8 year old mare that was very much like the horse you mentioned....She would pin her ears and turn her butt towards me, she would bite also.....I carried a whip and always kept her moving......It took lots of time and elbows to the nose to get her to keep her head forward and not try to bite while being handled...If the horse wont stand still get it moving, even on a lead line, Back up, back up, back up.......Forward at your pace, not the horses...Soon they tire of the movement and choose the right action.....Lots of ground work and never let the horse decide he has had enough...If he acts lazy? Get its feet moving even faster...It takes time with some but they will give......I still have her, I bought her and she now is a great old girl at 16......


Cheers!