Stumped on Feather Loss/Damage. I've Tried Everything I Can Think Of. Help Needed.

[NanaK]

Have you researched Deplumming Mites?

https://tvmdl.tamu.edu/2020/10/05/depluming-mites-in-birds/

I have no experience with these but have seen posts here on BYC about them. This could be your birds issue. There are other sites online as well if you search. Also use the search feature here on BYC.
What do you think @Eggcessive ?
If you treat for any type of mites make sure to clean out the coop and treat it also. Mites will hide in bedding and on roosts as well.

 

[Eggcessive]

You can usually see mites running around on the skin. One type comes on them at night, hiding in the dark areas of the roost in the daytime. If it is not mites or lice, I think they are pecking out each other’s feathers. They may not do it while you are with them, but they can do it while hanging out on the roosts. In your second picture, it looks like they are breaking off the feathers. Getting to the cause would be good, whether it is boredom, overcrowding, too little protein in the diet, too much light in the coop or nesting areas, or just one bird doing it. There are some anti-peck lotions and creams, such as pine tar, Nustock a horse cream made form sulfur and pine oil, or antipeck lotion. It doesn’t look like feather mites, but ivermectin is how to treat those.

 

[Captain Jack Sparrow]

Have you researched Deplumming Mites?

https://tvmdl.tamu.edu/2020/10/05/depluming-mites-in-birds/

I have no experience with these but have seen posts here on BYC about them. This could be your birds issue. There are other sites online as well if you search. Also use the search feature here on BYC.
What do you think @Eggcessive ?
If you treat for any type of mites make sure to clean out the coop and treat it also. Mites will hide in bedding and on roosts as well.

Thanks for your input. This could be it. I'll have to see if I can find other pictures of how it presents. It seems to start at the top of the feather and work its way down which would preclude a parasite that is down in the skin.
When if first started it was just two birds, same species (New Hampshire Reds), and they are the smallest in the flock so I thought it was some sort of pecking issue. This went on for 5-6 months and no other birds displayed this issue.
Then, one other bird had the same thing starting; feather loss/feather deterioration in the neck area and then the head. It literally looks like something is eating the feathers, but from the top down.
A few more birds developed this and I thought, okay they have mites so time to get some spanosid and treat them and the entire coop area.
I did muck out the entire stall, put new bedding down, sprayed every surface I could think of including the walls, roosting poles, and rolling nest box. I figured that should do it.
It did not. Now, I have my birds in an old horse stall that has very primitive floorboards that insects could certainly retreat to I suppose.
I treated just the birds again paying particular attention to the head, neck, under the wings, and the vent. The odd thing is they do not present with any feather loss in those areas. Now, I did just notice one of the birds is exhibiting feather loss on her saddle. This is new and does speak to some sort of skin infestation. I'm just wondering why the initial treatment didn't get it (or subsequent ones).
My climate is now just above freezing for daytime highs and teens at night. This trend will only worsen the next 3 months. So, I guess I could bring them into the garage that is a bit warmer, treat again, let them hang out to stay warm, and then once dry let them go back to the pasture and barn area.
Thanks again for your comments.

 

[Captain Jack Sparrow]

You can usually see mites running around on the skin. One type comes on them at night, hiding in the dark areas of the roost in the daytime. If it is not mites or lice, I think they are pecking out each other’s feathers. They may not do it while you are with them, but they can do it while hanging out on the roosts. In your second picture, it looks like they are breaking off the feathers. Getting to the cause would be good, whether it is boredom, overcrowding, too little protein in the diet, too much light in the coop or nesting areas, or just one bird doing it. There are some anti-peck lotions and creams, such as pine tar, Nustock a horse cream made form sulfur and pine oil, or antipeck lotion. It doesn’t look like feather mites, but ivermectin is how to treat those.

Thanks. I think I'm going to try to go out and get a scraping sample on a microscope slide and see if I can see anything. We have wild quail that are constantly getting into the hen area and they could have brought in this infestation.
Yes, I can't discount feather pecking. It just seems to be odd how it is presenting and going through the flock. The rooster now has it and I don't think anyone is pecking him. He's a bada** and pretty much roost on the fence and does not mingle with the girls. At night he's on the same roosting pole so that would speak to some sort of contagion/disease.
Thanks again for your comments.

 

[NanaK]

Thanks for your input. This could be it. I'll have to see if I can find other pictures of how it presents. It seems to start at the top of the feather and work its way down which would preclude a parasite that is down in the skin.
When if first started it was just two birds, same species (New Hampshire Reds), and they are the smallest in the flock so I thought it was some sort of pecking issue. This went on for 5-6 months and no other birds displayed this issue.
Then, one other bird had the same thing starting; feather loss/feather deterioration in the neck area and then the head. It literally looks like something is eating the feathers, but from the top down.
A few more birds developed this and I thought, okay they have mites so time to get some spanosid and treat them and the entire coop area.
I did muck out the entire stall, put new bedding down, sprayed every surface I could think of including the walls, roosting poles, and rolling nest box. I figured that should do it.
It did not. Now, I have my birds in an old horse stall that has very primitive floorboards that insects could certainly retreat to I suppose.
I treated just the birds again paying particular attention to the head, neck, under the wings, and the vent. The odd thing is they do not present with any feather loss in those areas. Now, I did just notice one of the birds is exhibiting feather loss on her saddle. This is new and does speak to some sort of skin infestation. I'm just wondering why the initial treatment didn't get it (or subsequent ones).
My climate is now just above freezing for daytime highs and teens at night. This trend will only worsen the next 3 months. So, I guess I could bring them into the garage that is a bit warmer, treat again, let them hang out to stay warm, and then once dry let them go back to the pasture and barn area.
Thanks again for your comments.

I read this-
The mite burrows into the feather shafts and the skin surrounding the feathers. I googled 'depluming mites chickens' and clicked the image tab and found a few pics.

Also found this thread by @TwoCrows
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/depluming-mites-and-how-to-treat-hens.674172/ Read post #5 Maybe TwoCrows will chime in too.

Hope this helps. It is frustrating when we can't figure out their problem.

 

[TwoCrows]

This doesn't look like depluming mites to me, generally depluming mites go after the larger shafted feathers like primaries and tail feathers first. Looks like it could almost be some sort of bacterial skin infection, I am not really sure. Are they getting into some sort of foliage causing skin irritation like poison oak or sumac? What do they dust bathe in?

 

[Captain Jack Sparrow]

This doesn't look like depluming mites to me, generally depluming mites go after the larger shafted feathers like primaries and tail feathers first. Looks like it could almost be some sort of bacterial skin infection, I am not really sure. Are they getting into some sort of foliage causing skin irritation like poison oak or sumac? What do they dust bathe in?

They don't have access to any foliage other than pasture grass. They dust bathe in sand and a mix of DE in a covered area. My thinking though with a bacterial infection is that this has been going on at least 8 months now and it would have become systemic and killed the birds. I just don't know. I have applied some Vet Rx directly on those red patches of skin. Maybe looks better in a couple of days? I have also sprayed some anti-fungal on the skin (Tinactic OTC). Again, maybe looks better? Feathers don't regrow though.
This has to be a contagion since it presents the SAME with every bird. It's a predictable pattern. If it were feather pecking it would not be like that I don't think. I can't find a vet locally that even sees birds of any kind.
So, at this point maybe I'll try to reapply the anti-fungal every day for a week and see what happens. If nothing, move onto Vet Rx. No real logic to this other than trying something..anything.
I could also try the mite/lice route again with spanocid, treat every bird, treat the stall, change bedding, etc. Will it work in this cold weather?
I've just feel like I'm rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

[Captain Jack Sparrow]

I read this-
The mite burrows into the feather shafts and the skin surrounding the feathers. I googled 'depluming mites chickens' and clicked the image tab and found a few pics.

Also found this thread by @TwoCrows
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/depluming-mites-and-how-to-treat-hens.674172/ Read post #5 Maybe TwoCrows will chime in too.

Hope this helps. It is frustrating when we can't figure out their problem.

Thanks NanaK. I appreciate the link and the comments. It is very frustrating. At this point I've given up and hope it doesn't kill the flock whatever it is. I'm happy to try anything again, but just feel like I'm spinning my wheels without a proper diagnosis.

 

[TwoCrows]

They don't have access to any foliage other than pasture grass. They dust bathe in sand and a mix of DE in a covered area. My thinking though with a bacterial infection is that this has been going on at least 8 months now and it would have become systemic and killed the birds. I just don't know. I have applied some Vet Rx directly on those red patches of skin. Maybe looks better in a couple of days? I have also sprayed some anti-fungal on the skin (Tinactic OTC). Again, maybe looks better? Feathers don't regrow though.
This has to be a contagion since it presents the SAME with every bird. It's a predictable pattern. If it were feather pecking it would not be like that I don't think. I can't find a vet locally that even sees birds of any kind.
So, at this point maybe I'll try to reapply the anti-fungal every day for a week and see what happens. If nothing, move onto Vet Rx. No real logic to this other than trying something..anything.
I could also try the mite/lice route again with spanocid, treat every bird, treat the stall, change bedding, etc. Will it work in this cold weather?
I've just feel like I'm rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Do their combs look dry and whitish? Too much white is usually a fungal infection. This doesn't look like mites but I could be wrong. Do you see ANY dirt looking crud on the skin indicating mite waste? I would definitely spray the skin with some sort of antiseptic, leaning toward antifungal. Keep it out of the eyes. Fungi are becoming very common now and they are stubborn to kill off. I would also put probiotics in their water daily for a while, human or animal will work. This beefing up the immune system, help them fight this off and stay healthy. A healthy immune system should be able to ward this off if its fungal or bacterial.

 

[NanaK]

Thanks NanaK. I appreciate the link and the comments. It is very frustrating. At this point I've given up and hope it doesn't kill the flock whatever it is. I'm happy to try anything again, but just feel like I'm spinning my wheels without a proper diagnosis.

I don't have access to a chicken vet either so I totally understand. Sometimes we just have to do the best we can.

Eggcessive mentioned a product called Nustock it has Sulphur, pine oil and some mineral oil in it. I've not used it myself but have seen it recommended here for different problems. You may find it locally where animal supplies are sold but it is available online. It is usually marketed for horses and is not very expensive. Sulphur is antibacterial and antifungal. So it would cover both. I believe it would also smother some mites and would be soothing to the skin. Here is one place online that sells it.

https://www.jefferspet.com/nustock?_q=nustock&map=ft

Also I wanted to say Welcome to BYC! There are really some good people here that try to help each other. Many are very knowledgeable about chickens and Eggcessive is among the best!
Always feel free to ask questions that's how we all learn.