Sudden death

[AinaWGSD]

I'm sorry for your loss, but I am glad you could get some answers with the necropsy. If the infection was in the abdominal cavity and not the intestinal tract I feel it's unlikely to be the cause of death. Peritonitis really should have caused her to feel badly enough that you probably would have noticed lethargy and "off" behavior.

The enlarged heart, on the other hand, does make sense with the symptoms you saw (or, rather, didn't see). My first thought whenever someone mentions sudden death is heart disease because sudden death with no other noticeable symptoms is often the only symptom.

It certainly never hurts to wash more thoroughly, but I really don't think her infections and death were caused by anything you did or didn't do. It sucks, but sometimes we're just unlucky

 

[neoelite]

So the necropsy came back and preliminarily it looks like two things- a bacterial infection in her abdomen and an enlarged heart / possible infection in the heart valves.

I suspect it was a coliform infection (E Coli) which I know they carry in their intestines in small quantities normally- based on this article and how she just suddenly died without any symptoms of illness at all.

Mississippi State University Article

Question now is- supposing the rest of the flock has this too and managing their environment of stress and keeping things VERY clean will reduce any further infection and death of the rest of my girls, is it okay to eat their eggs?? I have to imagine large CAFO farms have more unsanitary conditions than my back yard and people eat those eggs AND the chickens every day, but want to be super sure as we also give them away to the neighbors.

Something the doctor said in our discussion about was about the waterer and wet environments- it’s been raining for a whole week here. Standing water that they like to drink and is contaminated with bacteria and also biofilm in their waterer- a rookie mistake for me; we have a 2 gallon PVC waterer with the little red cups on the bottom. Unfortunately, I dump, rinse, and refill and don’t typically wash it with soap and water. So I feel very responsible for her death and am only trying to figure out how to keep the rest healthy and learn from my mistake.

Hope this helps someone else!

Hi! Thanks so much for the updates on your hen. So sorry for your loss, but it also sounds like it you are not to blame so don’t be too hard on yourself (although I know it’s hard not to trust me). That’s great you were able to determine the exact cause as well as figure out the situation with the waterer. I often do the same thing in the way that I would just empty, rinse and refill water, and i’m going to start soap cleaning my waterers to stay ahead of any problem like this. In the end, you are doing a good thing by educating others. Best of luck with the rest of your flock!

 

[orelsi]

Good job getting answers with the necropsy. Sudden death with no obvious symptoms means heart attack/disease in my experience. Chickens are very susceptible to it, especially older ones.

Did the vet advise you to do a treatment with antibiotics in their water as a preventative measure?

 

[NewAtThis8]

Good job getting answers with the necropsy. Sudden death with no obvious symptoms means heart attack/disease in my experience. Chickens are very susceptible to it, especially older ones.

Did the vet advise you to do a treatment with ntibiotics in their water as a preventative measure?

I actually asked because I was worried about the rest- she said that they don’t like to prescribe antibiotics unless symptomatic because it creates immunity to the antibiotics that then lowers their efficacy in the event of another infection. I’m still going to call my regular vet with the results and see what he says, but for now it seems the plan is to ensure a clean and dry environment (which is tough because we are on day 5 of constant rain here )

 

[orelsi]

I actually asked because I was worried about the rest- she said that they don’t like to prescribe antibiotics unless symptomatic because it creates immunity to the antibiotics that then lowers their efficacy in the event of another infection. I’m still going to call my regular vet with the results and see what he says, but for now it seems the plan is to ensure a clean and dry environment (which is tough because we are on day 5 of constant rain here )

I'd give them a course of antibiotics. We treat them as pets and waiting for symptoms is unacceptable imho. Vague notions of overusing antibiotics are not more important than my birds. My two cents

Check what your vet tells you anyway. If you could update the thread with what he recommends that'd be much appreciated. Always good to be informed by multiple sources.

 

[NewAtThis8]

I'd give them a course of antibiotics. We treat them as pets and waiting for symptoms is unacceptable imho. Vague notions of overusing antibiotics are not more important than my birds. My two cents

Check what your vet tells you anyway. If you could update the thread with what he recommends that'd be much appreciated. Always good to be informed by multiple sources.

The more I think about this the more I think you’re right- the doctor at the lab that did the necropsy said that she wouldn’t want to broad treat with antibiotics because of the immunity they could develop- but I think that’s a regular practice, not prescribing antibiotics to poultry due to the repercussions of inherited immunity. But these are backyard chickens, my pets, and I’m not breeding them or selling eggs so that wouldn’t be an issue. So I definitely want to broad treat them to prevent any future occurrence. I left a message for my vet (who’s off Fridays) and hoping that I can get a game plan together with him tomorrow.

 

[chickenchaser10]

Hi there, I am very sorry for your loss I wouldn’t kick yourself too much about the cleanliness of the waterer. Ive seen chickens drink from the most obscure water sources. and it sounds more like a heart issue.

I was hoping to get an opinion on a polish chicken I lost suddenly today. I figured I give a recent forum a try.. I live in south Florida where it’s very hot and humid. the polish has really never showed signs of heat stress however she was molting for the last two weeks and not laying, although she would frequent the coop throughout the day and hangou and then Come out very quickly. She was eating, drinking, and foraging all day. Well around 5pm today I went to add an additional fan to the coop bc it’s been so hot. The polish took interest in the new set up but was ultimately chased away by my rooster in what I thought was a mating attempt. 20 min later. I heard him chase her again, I came outside to break it up bc it sounded more distressed than normal (I figured the pain of molting feathers), and he was on top of her with her wings spread out completely, legs splayed out, and she died seconds later. This all happened in a 20-30 second time frame from first sound of distress to me picking up her limp body.. very sudden. My question is do you think this was a heart attack possibly brought on by the stress of the chase with the molting? is it possible he broke her neck? or a congenital issue? It’s just strange she was frequenting the nest while molting.. it also makes me think she was sick but she really seemed very healthy apart from the summer molt. I know I should necropsy but I fear it’s too late.
any advise or opinion welcome

 

[orelsi]

I was hoping to get an opinion on a polish chicken I lost suddenly today. I figured I give a recent forum a try.. I live in south Florida where it’s very hot and humid. the polish has really never showed signs of heat stress however she was molting for the last two weeks and not laying, although she would frequent the coop throughout the day and hangou and then Come out very quickly. She was eating, drinking, and foraging all day. Well around 5pm today I went to add an additional fan to the coop bc it’s been so hot. The polish took interest in the new set up but was ultimately chased away by my rooster in what I thought was a mating attempt. 20 min later. I heard him chase her again, I came outside to break it up bc it sounded more distressed than normal (I figured the pain of molting feathers), and he was on top of her with her wings spread out completely, legs splayed out, and she died seconds later. This all happened in a 20-30 second time frame from first sound of distress to me picking up her limp body.. very sudden. My question is do you think this was a heart attack possibly brought on by the stress of the chase with the molting? is it possible he broke her neck? or a congenital issue? It’s just strange she was frequenting the nest while molting.. it also makes me think she was sick but she really seemed very healthy apart from the summer molt. I know I should necropsy but I fear it’s too late.
any advise or opinion welcome

Frequenting the nest while molting is normal. Some hens hide on purpose while the molt is going and seek a well known / comfortable place.

I have seen a big rooster break or pull bones out of sockets, but never the neck. Usually it it wings and legs. I've seen spinal injury as well. Roosters hold the neck of the hen while mating for balance and to trigger the crouching / spreading wings pre-mating stance, but the pull is not strong enough to break the neck.

My guess would be heart attack. Molts are exhausting and any additional stress can be too much, especially if there's a heart condition she already has without obvious symptoms. He might have injured her in some way (the splayed legs) and the pain could have been the reason, but that's just speculation.

 

[chickenchaser10]

Frequenting the nest while molting is normal. Some hens hide on purpose while the molt is going and seek a well known / comfortable place.

I have seen a big rooster break or pull bones out of sockets, but never the neck. Usually it it wings and legs. I've seen spinal injury as well. Roosters hold the neck of the hen while mating for balance and to trigger the crouching / spreading wings pre-mating stance, but the pull is not strong enough to break the neck.

My guess would be heart attack. Molts are exhausting and any additional stress can be too much, especially if there's a heart condition she already has without obvious symptoms. He might have injured her in some way (the splayed legs) and the pain could have been the reason, but that's just speculation.

 

[chickenchaser10]

Thank you for the reply. I wasn’t sure if the rooster chasing her was more of a method of culling. I’ve seen him attack another hen who was noticeably sick and had to be euthanized many years ago. yea all very strange. there is no way internal laying has a sudden death effect right? They’d be lethargic first I’d assume?