i started from scratch and worked my way up too? my parents knew nothing about chickens we learned from the best and that is how i met Tom and got lots of birds from him. and i am not a 4H leader. I am a 4H senior member. I have had birds for 7 years and over the years i have bought from some of the biggest names around whether it was for sumatras or for my 15 other breeds of poultry and that is what i try and teach my other members since i am the president of my club and the most experiencedI am not against it but I think it is cheating especially if your parents are doing it for you and giving you there best birds. it's is not coming from you! it is much better to select them and do it yourself. not to sound selfish but when I see this happening I feel upset. my parents knew nothing about chickens so as you can see I started from scratch and worked my way up.