Sumatra Thread!

[Infnityhrt]

Great article in the 2013 American Poultry Association yearbook by Jim Adkins, International poultry judge "A NEW way of OLD judging for Standard Bred Poultry, pg 312. Hope more judges take it to heart, its kind of what I have been saying. Here is an excerpt from it.

Let me share with you where we have failed when it comes to judging standard bred poultry. Over the last twenty five years the winning large fowl Cornish have had short legs. These same birds have had problems reproducing. Have you ever wondered why? It is because the legs on the birds are to short. Recently I was talking to a very knowledgeable breeder and realized that we judges (yes NYREDS it said we judges) have been picking the best cornish with too short of legs! Yes, the Standard of Perfection says that the Cornish should have a "medium in length, well rounded leg" not short! Why a moderately long leg? So that the bird is able to naturally reproduce. This is obviously very important. When we judges (sorry NYREDS, there it is again) pick birds with short legs we are encouraging breeders to breed those kinds of birds. Since I realized this, I have been looking at Cornish completely differently. I have had to retrain my eyes. We all must do the same.

Of course, it is a long article, stuff before and after, but I want to applaud Jim Adkins, finally, someone who begins to relook at an old book and not just go with the flow because everyone else doesn't it. I would not be offended if a judge had to consult the book to really understand the breed. There are a lot of breeds out there and it can't be possible to know each breed exactly. Of course a judge is going to know the breeds best they are breeding or have bred but know the bred and place them according to Standard, it is what I have been saying about changing a breed. Large fowl shouldn't be bigger is better or bantam smaller is better.. it should be the weight. If you have a 5 lb bird, don't make them 8. Judges read the standard, place accordingly, who cares what breeders say, or get angry if you disqualify them, if they aren't breeding to it. you have facts to back you up and its our responsibility to breed to the standard.

 

[Infnityhrt]

Getting excited, with a months of bad luck we had to start from drawing board and abort the whole hen hatching her own chicks thing. Now I have five eggs in the fridge, a couple more and we will try incubating for the first time. My little girl can't wait to incubate and raise her own sumatra babies.

yeah, not good to put them in a regular fridge which is about 40 degrees, eggs should be kept at about 55 degrees, we just got a cooler and then put a frozen two liter bottle in it and keep the eggs in that( not right up against the ice though), its important that you turn them at least once a day even before setting. Seems to keep them at a good temp and the moisture it gives off is good too

 

[championsumatra]

Quote: oh I hope my APA year book comes in! more than a 5 of the well known chicken breeders and judges have told me why to breed the large fowl sumatras Big. for one thing is that they are getting really small and under weight for the standard weight. and second if they are a large fowl breed might as well breed them big you will get a lot good feed back from the judges saying that is a great reflection on how well you have been taking care for your birds. I don't just show in the junior shows most of the time I am showing in the open show anyways I am going to be to old to be showing in the junior shows anymore.

 

[Infnityhrt]

Well that's what he saying, you should breed and judges should judge by standard.. THAT's WHY WE HAVE A STANDARD! Finally a judge willing to do so. I think the standard is to preserve a breed, not make it what you want it, Whats the point of a standard.. for guidelines, judges are suppose to judge to it otherwise, why waste our money on it. If they don't tell you to breed to standard, then they are bad breeders and judges.

 

[Infnityhrt]

oh I hope my APA year book comes in! more than a 5 of the well known chicken breeders and judges have told me why to breed the large fowl sumatras Big. for one thing is that they are getting really small and under weight for the standard weight. and second if they are a large fowl breed might as well breed them big you will get a lot good feed back from the judges saying that is a great reflection on how well you have been taking care for your birds. I don't just show in the junior shows most of the time I am showing in the open show anyways I am going to be to old to be showing in the junior shows anymore.

Well I think that you can have a Large Fowl bird that does not have shiny feathers and a bright alert look, it is not the size of the bird that has a great reflection on the care, it is the condition, which is a healthy bird, to mean means an alert, sprite carriage and personality with shiny feathers and bright eyes, good weight, not fat but not skinny either, its about size at a healthy weight for the skeleton. Sumatras are one of the smallest large fowl weighing only 5 lbs for a cock. most others are at least 6 lbs.

 

[championsumatra]

I can tell you that I am going by the APA standard of perfection I have a copy to help me out. but what you do not realize is that there are different ways to get to that point. there are always going to be tricks and ways to breed them that are going to lead to a hard to beat Sumatra. it may not be your way but I am well on my way for someone my age. sorry to sound so cocky but I don't think I would be doing so well with my home bred sumatras if that where the case. the judges around here know what they are doing I can name a few and see if you know who they are. Dave Anderson, Sam Brush, Monty Fitzgerald, Donald Barger, and Frank Joseph.
Quote: yes that also true the condition is a huge thing they look for as well.

 

[NYREDS]

Well that's what he saying, you should breed and judges should judge by standard.. THAT's WHY WE HAVE A STANDARD! Finally a judge willing to do so. I think the standard is to preserve a breed, not make it what you want it, Whats the point of a standard.. for guidelines, judges are suppose to judge to it otherwise, why waste our money on it. If they don't tell you to breed to standard, then they are bad breeders and judges.

"Finally a judge willing to do so"? Are you of the opinion that Mr Adkins is the only judge who follows the Standard? I assure you he's not & in fact there's nothing unusual about it. I can't think of any judges who don't judge by the Standard.
The point Adkins was making in his article concerning the length of Cornish large fowl legs illustrates one of the shortcomings of the Standard. The Standard calls for a " round, moderately short, stout" shank. Here's where the subjectivity comes in. I know what "moderately short" looks like to me but it may well look different to Mr Adkins. Moderately isn't a very exact term & it is certainly subject to interpretation.

 

[championsumatra]

Quote:
I agree.

 

[cubakid]

I can tell you that I am going by the APA standard of perfection I have a copy to help me out. but what you do not realize is that there are different ways to get to that point. there are always going to be tricks and ways to breed them that are going to lead to a hard to beat Sumatra. it may not be your way but I am well on my way for someone my age. sorry to sound so cocky but I don't think I would be doing so well with my home bred sumatras if that where the case. the judges around here know what they are doing I can name a few and see if you know who they are. Dave Anderson, Sam Brush, Monty Fitzgerald, Donald Barger, and  Frank Joseph.
yes that also true the condition is a huge thing they look for as well.   

I can say that a Big Sumatra is just as bad as a small Sumatra in my eyes. The standard lists weights for us to follow, not suggestions. That is why it is a fault to be under/overweight. I understand that you have to work with what you have to breed a line of birds. But Sumatras are not a large breed they are a small breed. Five pounds is nothing. I know from experience that it is best to breed Sumatras for a "toned" body, using high roosts to build muscle in the breast. The breast muscles control wing movement, so increasing wing movement will "tone" the breast muscles.

 

[raph]

Hi, how are you guys?
Today at a sale i sold sid and a hen for 30 euros. And i bought a rhode island red cockerel for 10.
So i can be breeding in a few months.