Sumatra Thread!

[fowlman01]

Australorps are great, but not as great as Mr. Sherman's cockerels, but I did take 1 and 2 on Pullets against his. But the sudden drop in temps is creating for a spree of colds in all the birds so no more showing till mid January. Hasn't been a great year but were pushing on. @ramirezframing I'll keep out of discussion here, it's not worth fighting to share a personal view, and be told that an opinion is wrong.

enjoyed our visit at the show Zach. Stockton will be a different show.

Walt

 

[ramirezframing]

Quote:
First off congrats on you placings with your birds. Sorry to hear that some are not doing quite so well with the changing weather. I hope they get better quickly for you.

I am truly sorry that you or anyone else feels that sharing a personal view will get you attacked, but I must admit, I still kinda feel that way myself. If it was my post on the heads that made you feel this way, I am truly not out to attack/ fight anyone over their opinion. I understand that everyone will have their own opinion and that doesn't make someone right or wrong (one way everyone is different). I also understand that even if everyone agrees on a fact/ subject, we will all probably have a different view point on it. (Example; we can all agree that the feet bottoms of a sumatra should be yellow, but I fully expect that some would have the opinion that the whole bottom should be yellow, while others feel that only a little bit of the bottom should be yellow, and still yet some will say that it doesn't matter how much of the bottom is yellow just as long as it's yellow.) I feel that people can learn from these different opinions, but doesn't mean anyone is right or wrong for these opinions, and shouldn't get attacked any longer for writing how they feel.

I would love to get everyone's take on how the sop is written for the head/ beak. I know a short beak, but what is everyone's opinion of short? We can all agree on round but what size since none is given. this is an example; One person might think a dollar coin is the perfect size and not too big, where as another may feel a 50 cent piece is the perfect size and not too small. Both are still perfectly round, and with no stated size why is either one wrong? This is why I have questions on the heads, what is the right size in everyone's minds eye and why so? Can a sumatra's head be too big or have a beak that is too short? If so how big is to big and how short is too short?

When some were going on about hen #2 in the picture needing a shorter beak and bigger head, I stopped and thought she would look more like a cornish than a sumatra. That's my opinion, but I admit when one says a big head and short beak I always think of a cornish. When I think of big heads, I tend to think of cornish, shamoos, brahams and those types of birds with a big head but not a sumatra. So I would like to know where NYRED and any others who have the opinion that a big head (I'm not talking broad, as I feel they should have a broad head) is needed on a sumatra to explain why. I will not tell you that your opinions are wrong, but I am wondering if I have missed somethings or maybe its a case of I took the use of big to mean the whole head size when it was meant more in the way of width/ broadness of the head.

So please I would like to invite opinions on the sop and how it pertains to the heads, thank you to whoever shares

 

[ramirezframing]

Quite a few folks have described their Sumatras as "intelligent", and you will read that in most descriptions of them, but I'd like to give a few examples of how they exhibit their intelligence.

I had fenced maybe a dozen eight month old sumatras behind our barn to keep them out of the garden. From their pen in the barn they had access to an area approximately 30x100 feet and were separated from the garden by a 4 foot high sheep fence. I would often walk from the garden to the barn and rather than walk the long way around I would push down and step over the fence as a short cut. Soon after I came to the garden one afternoon and found my sumatras tearing up the rows. When I chased them out they ran to the fence and each bird flew over the fence in the exact spot they had watched me step over!


I have seen pullets group together to chase a cat away, and often birds will be under foot while I am gardening: eating the bugs exposed when I move a pot, dancing around the hoe picking grubs from the freshly turned soil, and drinking from the watering can.


Other poultry breeds have personalities and can be very tame, but my Junglefowl are the only chickens I have seen exceed the sumatras intelligence. (Okay, I guess now I have to validate that statement!)

My grey junglefowl rooster was scratching for seeds that were hidden under dry leaves and consequently kicked a pile of leaves into the water fount. He then turned about and stepped back aghast! There was no more water to be seen! He poked through the leaves to find there was still water beneath and took a drink. Then he proceeded to scratch the leaves from the fount. Each leaf that he couldn't get with his foot he picked out with his beak! When he had finished cleaning the water fount he gave a little "humph!" shook himself, and ran off.

So sorry for that tangent! I suppose I should say that Sumatras are the most intelligent "domesticated" chickens I have seen. But I was so surprised when I watched my grey do that and I just had to tell that story since we are discussing smart birds here anyhow.

-Stephen

Ok I just have to ask for a picture of your grey jungle fowl rooster, as I love the differences in the jungle fowl combs. The kids get a kick outta the one that looks like it has teeth sticking out all the way around it.

 

[troyer]

So please I would like to invite opinions on the sop and how it pertains to the heads, thank you to whoever shares

This sounds great! Here we go, this cockerel is 10 months old in this picture. I really like him but would like to see a little improvement in the head.
Please share your input, it will be greatly appreciated.



In reality I like this head even more.


And here is a head shot of a picture from National Geographic of a Sumatra rooster from the wilds of Sumatra Indonesia.

 

[championsumatra]

I at first I was honestly here to learn until I started hearing things that needed to be corrected. Then I started to give advice and stated my own opinions. Then that is when every one started to attack me for saying so in the first place. That is when I stared to get nasty because I got tired of hearing it. If you where to meet me in person you would not know it was me.

 

[ramirezframing]

Quote: I agree in the fact that my roosters have more wattle than I would like also, but since the SOP says little to none, I would like none on mine. Something that I am working on. Your blue rooster has a nice dark face compared to alot of the blue roosters I have seen. I also like the blue roosters head better then your sumatra cubalaya mix, but the mixes head isn't bad at all. And even with his larger head, his wattles/ throat area doesn't stick out as far as I have seen in some, giving him a nice clean looking neck. I also feel that the mix rooster has a beak that's too short, but it is nicely curved and stout. The picture from NG is very interesting. I love how the gypsy color goes into his wattles/ throat area along with his ear lobes. His comb is kinda odd looking but could be due to an injury, or the plain fact of being a free range bird with unknown parents. Still very nice to see this picture. Thank you alot for sharing your thoughts and pictures, they help alot with seeing what one is talking about.

 

[zach N houdan]

here is a pic of my blue rooster that won. Sorry its not the best pic.

 

[ramirezframing]

Looks like he might have some nice lacing to him. Congrats once again Zach.

 

[championsumatra]

He looks really good. but the photo almost makes him look like he is a little bit up right. I think it is just the photo.

 

[BGMatt]

First off congrats on you placings with your birds. Sorry to hear that some are not doing quite so well with the changing weather. I hope they get better quickly for you.

I am truly sorry that you or anyone else feels that sharing a personal view will get you attacked, but I must admit, I still kinda feel that way myself. If it was my post on the heads that made you feel this way, I am truly not out to attack/ fight anyone over their opinion. I understand that everyone will have their own opinion and that doesn't make someone right or wrong (one way everyone is different). I also understand that even if everyone agrees on a fact/ subject, we will all probably have a different view point on it. (Example; we can all agree that the feet bottoms of a sumatra should be yellow, but I fully expect that some would have the opinion that the whole bottom should be yellow, while others feel that only a little bit of the bottom should be yellow, and still yet some will say that it doesn't matter how much of the bottom is yellow just as long as it's yellow.) I feel that people can learn from these different opinions, but doesn't mean anyone is right or wrong for these opinions, and shouldn't get attacked any longer for writing how they feel.

I would love to get everyone's take on how the sop is written for the head/ beak. I know a short beak, but what is everyone's opinion of short? We can all agree on round but what size since none is given. this is an example; One person might think a dollar coin is the perfect size and not too big, where as another may feel a 50 cent piece is the perfect size and not too small. Both are still perfectly round, and with no stated size why is either one wrong? This is why I have questions on the heads, what is the right size in everyone's minds eye and why so? Can a sumatra's head be too big or have a beak that is too short? If so how big is to big and how short is too short?

When some were going on about hen #2 in the picture needing a shorter beak and bigger head, I stopped and thought she would look more like a cornish than a sumatra. That's my opinion, but I admit when one says a big head and short beak I always think of a cornish. When I think of big heads, I tend to think of cornish, shamoos, brahams and those types of birds with a big head but not a sumatra. So I would like to know where NYRED and any others who have the opinion that a big head (I'm not talking broad, as I feel they should have a broad head) is needed on a sumatra to explain why. I will not tell you that your opinions are wrong, but I am wondering if I have missed somethings or maybe its a case of I took the use of big to mean the whole head size when it was meant more in the way of width/ broadness of the head.

So please I would like to invite opinions on the sop and how it pertains to the heads, thank you to whoever shares

If you look on page 28 (at least in the 2010 Standard, other versions it's in the part called Interpretation of the Standard) You will find that dimensional terms are to be understood as relative to the bird. So for instance "short beak" on one bird may be different than "short beak" on another bird. A "short beak" on a Sumatra is not the same as a "short beak" on a Cornish either.