Sumatra Thread!

[zach N houdan]

he has nice black edging lacing, his blue feathers that some blues lack.I really like him and i hoping to get some nice babies out of him and the hen behind him who has excellent lacing but is on the lighter end and he is a darker blue but not too dark.

• @ramirezframing thanks for the compliment.

 

[zach N houdan]

This sounds great! Here we go, this cockerel is 10 months old in this picture. I really like him but would like to see a little improvement in the head.
Please share your input, it will be greatly appreciated.



In reality I like this head even more.


And here is a head shot of a picture from National Geographic of a Sumatra rooster from the wilds of Sumatra Indonesia.

I am a strong critic of my own birds as well. But he is a nice looking blue, good luck with him at upcoming shows

 

[Tanichca]

he has nice black edging lacing, his blue feathers that some blues lack.I really like him and i hoping to get some nice babies out of him and the hen behind him who has excellent lacing but is on the lighter end and he is a darker blue but not too dark.

• @ramirezframing thanks for the compliment.

Gorgeous!

 

[championsumatra]

Same here I am not easy on my birds either.

• zach N houdan

This sounds great! Here we go, this cockerel is 10 months old in this picture. I really like him but would like to see a little improvement in the head.
Please share your input, it will be greatly appreciated.



In reality I like this head even more.


And here is a head shot of a picture from National Geographic of a Sumatra rooster from the wilds of Sumatra Indonesia.

You know I like the blue male better than the other birds you posted. The blue male has smaller wattles and comb than the other ones do. He almost looks like he is going to have a better body type than the other birds do (I can't say that for sure). Great color for a blue, but to me he needs stronger lacing, nice face color and eye color. he dose need a better head, but he is young so there is time for improvement. Is his tail still growing in or is that is long as the tail is going to get on him?

 

[NYREDS]

First off congrats on you placings with your birds. Sorry to hear that some are not doing quite so well with the changing weather. I hope they get better quickly for you.

I am truly sorry that you or anyone else feels that sharing a personal view will get you attacked, but I must admit, I still kinda feel that way myself. If it was my post on the heads that made you feel this way, I am truly not out to attack/ fight anyone over their opinion. I understand that everyone will have their own opinion and that doesn't make someone right or wrong (one way everyone is different). I also understand that even if everyone agrees on a fact/ subject, we will all probably have a different view point on it. (Example; we can all agree that the feet bottoms of a sumatra should be yellow, but I fully expect that some would have the opinion that the whole bottom should be yellow, while others feel that only a little bit of the bottom should be yellow, and still yet some will say that it doesn't matter how much of the bottom is yellow just as long as it's yellow.) I feel that people can learn from these different opinions, but doesn't mean anyone is right or wrong for these opinions, and shouldn't get attacked any longer for writing how they feel.

I would love to get everyone's take on how the sop is written for the head/ beak. I know a short beak, but what is everyone's opinion of short? We can all agree on round but what size since none is given. this is an example; One person might think a dollar coin is the perfect size and not too big, where as another may feel a 50 cent piece is the perfect size and not too small. Both are still perfectly round, and with no stated size why is either one wrong? This is why I have questions on the heads, what is the right size in everyone's minds eye and why so? Can a sumatra's head be too big or have a beak that is too short? If so how big is to big and how short is too short?

When some were going on about hen #2 in the picture needing a shorter beak and bigger head, I stopped and thought she would look more like a cornish than a sumatra. That's my opinion, but I admit when one says a big head and short beak I always think of a cornish. When I think of big heads, I tend to think of cornish, shamoos, brahams and those types of birds with a big head but not a sumatra. So I would like to know where NYRED and any others who have the opinion that a big head (I'm not talking broad, as I feel they should have a broad head) is needed on a sumatra to explain why. I will not tell you that your opinions are wrong, but I am wondering if I have missed somethings or maybe its a case of I took the use of big to mean the whole head size when it was meant more in the way of width/ broadness of the head.

So please I would like to invite opinions on the sop and how it pertains to the heads, thank you to whoever shares

I don't remembersaying Sumatras needed to have big heads. If I remember correctly I quoted what the Standard says about the Sumatra head & beak. In referring the the Sumatras at the NE Bantam Club show I did say the one that won had a larger head & a shorter beak as the one that she defeated had a head like a Modern Game which is clearly wrong on a Sumatra. Saying that one bird needs a bigger head isn't the same as saying the birds need big heads. Subtle but different. Hope this clarifies my point.

 

[ramirezframing]

Quote: Yes, this does clear that up as a misunderstanding on my part of what you were saying. Thank you for taking the time to point out my misunderstanding of what you meant. Do you possibly have any pictures of what you would consider an ideal head size that you would care to share? Thank you for sharing your opinion.

 

[ramirezframing]

If you look on page 28 (at least in the 2010 Standard, other versions it's in the part called Interpretation of the Standard) You will find that dimensional terms are to be understood as relative to the bird. So for instance "short beak" on one bird may be different than "short beak" on another bird. A "short beak" on a Sumatra is not the same as a "short beak" on a Cornish either.

Thanks for reminding me of this, I know that different people wrote the different standards at different times and that they did not use the already written standards of other breeds to compare theirs to. But it is always good to point this out again.

 

[ramirezframing]

he has nice black edging lacing, his blue feathers that some blues lack.I really like him and i hoping to get some nice babies out of him and the hen behind him who has excellent lacing but is on the lighter end and he is a darker blue but not too dark.

• @ramirezframing thanks for the compliment.

Good luck with this breeding group. I would be interested in seeing how this does turn out as to how many are what shade of blue and how many get the lacing that you are after compared to the ones who don't. Please keep us updated on it.

 

[zach N houdan]

I'm excited too for the up coming breeding season. He is best blue male but I have some other that range in shades of blue and the same with hens so I'm going to try and match them together to get one shade of even blue!

 

[Coop Scoop Boogie]

lovely pair Zach.........can't wait to see the chicks