Sumatra Thread!

[TattooedChicks]

Judging by the tail, she looks like a girly birdie to me!! So I'm hoping with you.
Has any green shine started to shine through her black feathers yet? I'm getting a mix of purple and green with mine and they are between 8-9 weeks right now. It doesn't show well in photographs which is why I ask.

Some, depends on how much sand she's been rolling in. I'm noticing it more on her flanks and tail and some purples around her shoulders. Can't believe how fast almost 7 weeks have gone by, they grow up so quickly.

 

[Then I Will]

Roosters should not normally be human aggressive... but I have read the horror stories here too. I decided to try and figure out why so many have issues... so I decided to research a bit... my findings.

1 do not teach them to roost on your shoulder... this can trigger bad behavior in parrots and many people on BYC have stories about their favorite sweetest boy chick that used to roost on shoulder becoming aggressive.

2 human aggression can Be inherited, always pay attention to your birds temperaments aka behaviors if breeding them to avoid breeding unwanted behaviors in your flock... it is absolutely amazing how many behaviors are breedable for... gamefowl breeders know this.

3 humans can trigger aggression by not understanding chickens or treating them in ways we would a dog but to a chicken you might be the aggressive one... study big bird behaviors as to what they like or dislike... oddly again parrots may help you learn to understand chickens better, especially videos on body language and gentle training.

4 learn to know warning signs of aggressive rooster aka man killers, see YouTube a gamefowl guy put a very informative video up on just that.

5 learn to trim nails and spurs for your safety and the hens safety.

6 don't let aggression slide, let them know who is boss. I peck back, put birds in time out, use the word No when dealing with attitude... there are some threads on correcting bad dog roosters so they need not end up as chicken dinner... some aggression is correctable.

7 know if you are dealing with a broody rooster... defending hen and offspring. Sometimes Roos not just hens get aggressive to protect eggs or babies too.

I hope this helps, most roosters are usually not a problem.

I really value your points on the aggression topic!! We had a family cockatiel back home and I did exercise some of the same "punishments/rewards" upon the chickens. It did work to a degree but I did have a family member undermining my efforts. I've learned not to hold my chickens above eye level and that pecking back does work. It helps though, to not have a dad who instigates fights with the rooster for fun. I was always able to scoop my Buff rooster right out of the air when he was trying to " dust my shins"- and sometimes I could see him thinking twice because he had learned that going into attack mode meant he would get caught the moment he left the ground, held and petted and carried around for a long time.

I don't think we have an article on rooster aggression yet. Would love to see it if you write one!! Right now I'm going to search for that video you mention since Sumatras are close to the games.

 

[Lauravonsmurf]

I really value your points on the aggression topic!! We had a family cockatiel back home and I did exercise some of the same "punishments/rewards" upon the chickens. It did work to a degree but I did have a family member undermining my efforts. I've learned not to hold my chickens above eye level and that pecking back does work. It helps though, to not have a dad who instigates fights with the rooster for fun. I was always able to scoop my Buff rooster right out of the air when he was trying to " dust my shins"- and sometimes I could see him thinking twice because he had learned that going into attack mode meant he would get caught the moment he left the ground, held and petted and carried around for a long time.

I don't think we have an article on rooster aggression yet. Would love to see it if you write one!! Right now I'm going to search for that video you mention since Sumatras are close to the games.

My studies on them is sadly based on observing my hens, analysis of what others do with Roos and were it went south and talking to folks with lots and lots of Roos especially from Chicken aggressive breeds. So I doubt I am qualified to write an article I need real experience in my opinion outside of just hens... but hens too develop behavior issues in flocks too and I think the bad behaviors are linked to human keeping styles and breeding issues. So I have been trying to better my understanding of bird thinking vs human as I think we miss the signs of aggression until the attack attack that gets our attention, we fail to respect their behaviors and impose human ones which unfortunately may create or rewards the aggression we don't want. Then add no understanding chickens have genetic behaviors, learned behaviors from humans, and chicken taught knowledge bases to respond with I just think we set flocks up for problems by accident.

Flock size and dynamics also are not understood. When I started keeping again we went with just 2 birds... this has created a different dynamic than when I had a bigger flock in the past, more conflicts have occurred between the 2 hens than when I had many. I believe the smaller number is creating a stressed situation in pecking order behavior... so the fix is get and gradually introduce more birds... I will be testing that out. Conversely I have seen horror stories of too many birds in small spaces leading to disaster too... so space and flock size are a trigger for some negative behaviors.

Basically my first default question when issues occur is what am I doing wrong? Next how can I fix it? So far my issues with my birds are usually not them as much as me bone heading something I did not realize was or could be an issue.

 

[AllenK RGV]

I really value your points on the aggression topic!! We had a family cockatiel back home and I did exercise some of the same "punishments/rewards" upon the chickens. It did work to a degree but I did have a family member undermining my efforts. I've learned not to hold my chickens above eye level and that pecking back does work. It helps though, to not have a dad who instigates fights with the rooster for fun. I was always able to scoop my Buff rooster right out of the air when he was trying to " dust my shins"- and sometimes I could see him thinking twice because he had learned that going into attack mode meant he would get caught the moment he left the ground, held and petted and carried around for a long time.

I don't think we have an article on rooster aggression yet. Would love to see it if you write one!! Right now I'm going to search for that video you mention since Sumatras are close to the games.

I watched what I thought was the video she referred to, the rooster drew blood from the guy and broke off his dewclaw(?) but don't look for more video's from that guy as he also put one out on how to properly mount fighting knives on them. Just watch the man fighting chicken one as it was informative I liked seeing the calming effect of the Johnson Baby oil on the aggressive bird as well. I'm sure I found the wrong video when I used your search terms and I can't believe American's are still cockfighting.

 

[AllenK RGV]

My studies on them is sadly based on observing my hens, analysis of what others do with Roos and were it went south and talking to folks with lots and lots of Roos especially from Chicken aggressive breeds. So I doubt I am qualified to write an article I need real experience in my opinion outside of just hens... but hens too develop behavior issues in flocks too and I think the bad behaviors are linked to human keeping styles and breeding issues. So I have been trying to better my understanding of bird thinking vs human as I think we miss the signs of aggression until the attack attack that gets our attention, we fail to respect their behaviors and impose human ones which unfortunately may create or rewards the aggression we don't want. Then add no understanding chickens have genetic behaviors, learned behaviors from humans, and chicken taught knowledge bases to respond with I just think we set flocks up for problems by accident.

Flock size and dynamics also are not understood. When I started keeping again we went with just 2 birds... this has created a different dynamic than when I had a bigger flock in the past, more conflicts have occurred between the 2 hens than when I had many. I believe the smaller number is creating a stressed situation in pecking order behavior... so the fix is get and gradually introduce more birds... I will be testing that out. Conversely I have seen horror stories of too many birds in small spaces leading to disaster too... so space and flock size are a trigger for some negative behaviors.

Basically my first default question when issues occur is what am I doing wrong? Next how can I fix it? So far my issues with my birds are usually not them as much as me bone heading something I did not realize was or could be an issue.

Well based upon your observations my wife and I discussed the need to treat them as chicken and not like dogs. If they want to come up to us and sit in our laps fine otherwise we will be allowing them to roam as they like and will not be forcing the issue. These guys just like me for the bugs I bring them at 9 days old not one of the 10 wants to be picked up or held or to roost on a finger I am of the mind that this is just how they roll since they are chickens!

 

[Then I Will]

I watched what I thought was the video she referred to, the rooster drew blood from the guy and broke off his dewclaw(?) but don't look for more video's from that guy as he also put one out on how to properly mount fighting knives on them. Just watch the man fighting chicken one as it was informative I liked seeing the calming effect of the Johnson Baby oil on the aggressive bird as well. I'm sure I found the wrong video when I used your search terms and I can't believe American's are still cockfighting.

I found this one and think it's the one they referred to:

It was helpful for reading their behavior but I considered this to be common sense for anyone who has kept chickens a while. What I would find more helpful is things I can do to prevent the roosters from learning aggression and how to stop aggression in its tracks. For instance, flip flops seem to be a trigger for most roosters. They really seem to hate my feet.

And for your amusement I also link you to this naive chick who is a vegetarian- if you read her video description- she believes in tolerating the abuse.

 

[Lauravonsmurf]

Omg the vegetarian chick needs to establish her Alpha Hen dominance before she or someone else get's hurt. It is also not healthy for the birds as they will be hard to handle in emergencies, giving care to, and means they could get serious spurs... spurs can injure humans, or if an artery hit kill. Not good. She needs to scoop the birds up and start hauling them around so they know who is boss. They need daily human interaction for extended periods... probably I would borrow some ideas from gf folks and parrot folks put those two in seperate little cages... and start bonding with them seperatly, taking them out to handle, exercise and train but only 1 on 1 contact, build trust, and bonding... while establishing me as Alpha in each of their heads individually.

Wow.

As to the gf videos most are old preoutlawing it in all states. However if you want ideas on how to deal with injuries they be the folks with the most experience... and honestly gf keepers from here and internationally helped me save a hen... the advice from everyone saved her, she was bad most had never seen a hen that injuried still sucking in air. My laying hens got in a dust up during molt and it was bad. One video I found did talk about rehabilitating an abused rooster... it all revolved around building trust through patience, calm environment, 1 on 1 care, exercises that built trust, and not hurting the rooster... I know that guy had to have been fighting too, but he was very adamant about not abusing your chickens... humans are paradoxes.

Some things just freak some birds out too... hard to predict .

 

[AllenK RGV]

Watching my little hatchling flock makes me think that establishing alpha dominance just comes naturally. I don't know how I can lose it. I bring them the dustbustered bugs, water and food. They love it when I appear. You taught me alot Laura and I am grateful, or at least gave me loads to reflect on and process. Your common sense it seriously uncommon.
As a combat Medic I feel comfortable saving the ones that can be saved and naturally am a medical kit hoarder I was just a bit offended when the aggressive rooster guy had a video on mounting blades on them. Regardless, his dealing with aggression video was excellent I imagine I can learn from anyone even damaged goods like that dude as the Army taught me I don't have to like the people I work with. Still I can't wait until my Black beauties are the envy of the neighborhood! The peacocks 2 doors down won't be a thing since they mostly make noise and aren't seen. The lady across the way seems to love bantams but they are of standard chicken fare. I have black sumatras=)

Oh and the last three rescue dogs I acquired from my next door neighbors now hate the neighbors(this is basically Mexico) they really try to make sure they stay on their side of the fence(sorry to brag) but it makes me proud seeing these dogs telling their prior owners to keep their distance.

 

[Lauravonsmurf]

I am not a fan of fighting, however when I started trying to increase my knowledge base I ran into a problem which is a lot of issues simply are not handled or videoed on by production folks... a lot of folks solve most problems with axe, so I went off to explore other options.

I also wanted to understand behaviors better of roosters, so logic dictated find the rooster keepers and learn... and what an eye opener on behaviors being genetic that was. I also came away more amazed about not just chickens but traditional keeper practices from around the world.

I try to be practical about knowledge and info we all need. I think most chicken keeping knowledge can be used on all breeds it is just certain ideas and knowledge has gotten sort of compartmentalized probably becuase big production ag industry has a different focus than saying a show breeder or a guy breeding gamefowl or a small rural farmer on an island. The focus, the environment, the economics and available resources all play a role in how people raise birds and care for them. It is easy for very good simple practices to become lost knowledge with the spread of industrial keeping. Often these ideas are preserved though in niche communities... so I explore things from time to time, scientific studies, old books, or maybe chatting with folks on how they use certain herbs traditionally for their chickens.

I am still trying to get more info on Preasure Points for chickens... I have gotten some info. but it looks like I will have to take what I have and compare to humans and lab rat my hens to see if I can put that to use in the future.

 

[AllenK RGV]

I am not a fan of fighting, however when I started trying to increase my knowledge base I ran into a problem which is a lot of issues simply are not handled or videoed on by production folks... a lot of folks solve most problems with axe, chicken sick kill it, chicken misbehaving kill it, chicken hurt kill it, chick

Agreed soup, fridge and freezer come up often in this forum. Again I do not think that will be my go to after raising this clutch so many are expressing personalities already. Plus the fact I will have to phone a friend(neighbors) and ask them to kill their meal(I won't), and that will be slightly embarrasing.