Summer scratch

[MyTDogs]

What is Big 4? Some sort of protein pellet?

Most of the game type feeds contain a mixture of grain and some type of pellet (some will have more than one).

One of the more simpler mixes I've seen was --
16% protein mix -

50 lbs Pigeon Grain with Corn
25 lbs Big 4
15 lbs Whole Corn
10 lbs Black Oiled Sunflower Seed

Chris

 

[MyTDogs]

Well, sure....but! In the name of advertising they could say Grain products (includes 12 of the following: millet, milo, sorghum, red wheat, etc...etc...) The point is that "grain products" sounds like agricultural waste products- you know the sweeping from the mill floor people talk about companies using instead of whole grains.

I believe that AAFCO [they monitor livestock feeds too, right?] allows up to 6 months after a recipe change to for the label to reflect the changes.

It sounds like, based on Speck's report of their response, that the company simply doesn't want to reveal the ingredients [that concerns me a little too] and AAFCO doesn't require anything more specific than "grain products".

The reason they don't list all the grains by name is one day it maybe one grain and the next week it maybe something else.

 

[Chris09]

What is Big 4? Some sort of protein pellet?

It a all flock feed pellet.


GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Crude Protein, min. 20.00%
Lysine, min. 1.10%
Methionine, min 0.39%
Crude Fat, min. 3.50%
Crude Fiber, max. 4.00%
Calcium, min. 0.70%
Calcium, max. 1.20%
Phosphorus, min. 0.65%
Salt, min. 0.10%
Salt, max. 0.60%
INGREDIENTS Ground Corn, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Wheat Middlings, Porcine Meat Meal,
Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), Lysine, DL-Methionine,
Calcium Carbonate, Calcium Phosphate, Salt, Manganous Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate,
Zinc Oxide, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3
Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source of Vitamin K
Activity), Riboflavin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Niacin Supplement, Pyridoxine
Hydrochloride, Choline Chloride, d-Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic
Acid, Dried Saccharomyces cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Brewers Dried Yeast


Chris

 

[MyTDogs]

Sure, rub it in Apparently GA is blessed with all the cool stuff. Down here in FL we are stuck with mostly corn dust & "animal protein product"!

The animal protein in the Tucker Milling is listed specifically as porcine.

It's excellent feed at a great price.

 

[MyTDogs]

Oooo thanks Cindy! Will look into that. Should my local feed store carry pigeon grains? If not them, who else?

If you can't find Knockout like Speckled Hen gets, you can get a pigeon grain with ingredients listed & different protein %. Around here we have Purgrain & F M Browns. I get one with no corn that has 16% protein. They also have lower protein ones I can order. You can see the ingredients & the individual grains on their websites. Just look around your area for pigeon grains. The neat thing is it is virtually dust free, unlike most chicken scratch. It is not as cheap as Knockout however.

 

[speckledhen]

Tucker Milling and Faithway Feeds are both based in Alabama. Some places can get it ordered so always ask if you can do that. Knockout is by Faithway. The 16% and the 22% mini-pellets I use for layer feed are by Tucker Milling.

 

[dretd]

Sorry, corn is not inexpensive, certainly not here! Plain old dusty corn scratch is almost as expensive as my 11-grain Knockout.

Where on earth are you finding cheap corn??

I pay $2 more per 50# bag for Knockout than I do for regular scratch here. There is much more than a $2 difference in nutritional value between those two products.


Yes, good shade trees and cool water are the best ways to handle the heat. I do not change the diet of my birds in summer over winter, even here in Georgia.

I think that we are debating apples and oranges on this thread when it comes to the feed but think we are talking about the same fruit causing a lot of angst where there really shouldn't be any.

For me to go in and buy a bag or two of corn at the feed store, it is going to be about the same as the other grains. This is because much of the cost of any of these products is wrapped up in the processing, packaging, transportation and distribution of the feed. It may cost $1 per bag to grow grain A and $2 a bag to grow Grain B, but the cost of transporting that 50lbs, bagging it, transporting it to the distributor and then them putting their % mark-up on it may result in a 10% difference in the cost of the feed for the consumer where there was a 100% cost difference to start.

Another point to consider is that the large-scale manufacturer/producer of the feed grows their own grains or contracts with farmers to grow a crop for them. Take Purina Mills for instance. Purina Mills is a subsidiary of Land O Lakes, a cooperative that has 3200 member-producers. These folks are not buying corn on the open market as a commodity but rather growing their own corn for their own products which is much cheaper for them to do. So you can get 'cheap corn' if you grow it yourself on a massive scale thus cutting out the middle man. I could go on, but hopefully I have given y'all a point to consider. There is nothing simple and straight-forward about big business.

 

[Cindy in PA]

Oooo thanks Cindy! Will look into that. Should my local feed store carry pigeon grains? If not them, who else?

I can get one at the feed mill that produces it & the other at the local feed store. I have to add that these are all grain mixes (no pellets) although I think they may sell some with pellets in for the pigeons also. I would search for "pigeon grains" in your area & see what comes up. Ask at your feed store or mill. TSC used to carry the Gamecock Conditioner that Speckledhen mentioned, but mine doesn't carry it since they switched everything to Purina. That one contains a pellet of some sort. Hope this helps.

 

[speckledhen]

Quote: Ain't that the truth! Anyway, we were talking about changing scratch in summer, not the cost of corn, you're right, but as conversations always go, we get off on tangents.

To summarize my opinion, I see no reason to change anything in summer since I have been convinced for years that corn doesn't heat up chickens, per studies cited here years ago. Of course, as you know, I don't buy a scratch mix that is high corn percentage, either, because I prefer them to have something with a higher nutritional value and until recently, I had a rooster who lived and ate separately from the rest of the flock as well. That was his sole feed other than the occasional scrambled egg treat.

 

[Chris09]

Here's one to think about. It also somewhat funny also.


Since Over Feeding proteins can/ will makes your bird Over Heat then by adding some extra corn in there diet during the hot summer months you could be actually be actually (dare I say)



"cool" your bird by depleting there proteins.



Chris