Surgery for reproductive problem?

[lmterp]

Would love some feedback/experience. I have a chicken that has not been doing well for some time (almost 4 weeks). I am very attached to her. Initially, the vet could find nothing wrong, except she was too thin. So we tried antibiotics and tube feeding. She improved, but never completely bounced back. She took a turn for the worse a few days ago, and I seriously thought she'd die overnight. But she was alive, and drinking a bit of water, so I decided to have the vet look at her again this morning. This time she had an abdomen full of fluid. He removed 400 cc's of fluid from her abdomen and said there is definitely a lot going on in there, but really the only way to know for sure is to open her up. He SUSPECTS it's something with the reproductive system and IF SO, he has had very good results with other chickens having all reproductive parts removed. The surgery could be as much as $1,500 depending on how complicated it is. I'm torn - I could afford it, but it's expensive, so. a consideration. More importantly, I'm concerned about her well-being and don't want to put her through unnecessary life-saving measures just because I don't want to lose her.
I'm wondering if any of you have had experience with this kind of surgery, and how it worked out. Thanks!

 

[Nellzmom]

• Nellzmom
• Post #18
• Jul 10, 2021
• Forum: Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures

I'm not sure how to include a link to my thread about my hen Violet, who suffered and died from salpingitis, but above is the info to find it. I got great advice from @Wyorp Rock who had gone through this before.

Violet was about 1 year old when this problem developed. I took her to an avian vet who x-rayed her, then to a local poultry vet 3 times who tapped her belly. The 3rd time the vet said he would spay her if I brought her in again. Wanting a 2nd opinion, I took Violet to an Avian specialist at Carolina Vet Specialists on October 10th to see about the surgery (I'm in NC).

Between 7/10/21 and 10/10/21 she had good days and bad days. She always seemed to eat, drink, and forage fine even on her "down" days. When she palpated Violet's belly on 10/10, the specialist actually groaned at all the "stuff" she was feeling in her oviduct. We discussed the surgery, but I couldn't get the specialist's groan out of my mind. And I finally asked her the questions I should have asked all the other vets: what's her current condition; Is she in pain/discomfort/ Is she suffering? The vet said her pain level was probably 5 out of 10; her condition wasn't good due to a stretched out oviduct and crowded organs; and yes, she was suffering. I told her that I wanted Violet humanely euthanized because she had been suffering for some time, and I couldn't see putting her through surgery and post-op. The specialist said she strongly agreed with my decision and I held Violet while she comfortably passed away.

A couple of things I found out about surgery: It's $1500 for the surgery. They just remove the oviduct; the ovary is usually not removed because of how close it lies to an important tangle of nerves. So the ovary stays, continuing to generate the ova. To stop production of the ova, you have to give them a hormonal implant every 2-3 months. The quote I got was $350-450 every 2-3 months (not sure if that price includes the office visit). The vets who use it (it's actually against the law for them to use the hormone, at least in NC), will say 3-4 months, but the specialist told me in her experience it was closer to 2-3 months. If you don't use the implant, those ova keep coming. Some of them can be resorbed into the body, but some aren't, which can lead to abdominal infection. If your vet says he's going to remove the ovary too, I'd be worried.

I know there are folks on here who have successfully done the surgery and use the implants and I hope they'll chime in. In Violet's case, it was too late. If I had another hen develop this condition and I wanted to go the surgery/implant route, I'd do it immediately while she was in good health, rather than wait the months I did.

Hope this helps. Wishing the best outcome for you and your girl.

 

[lmterp]

Violet was about 1 year old when this problem developed. I took her to an avian vet who x-rayed her, then to a local poultry vet 3 times who tapped her belly. The 3rd time the vet said he would spay her if I brought her in again. Wanting a 2nd opinion, I took Violet to an Avian specialist at Carolina Vet Specialists on October 10th to see about the surgery (I'm in NC).

Between 7/10/21 and 10/10/21 she had good days and bad days. She always seemed to eat, drink, and forage fine even on her "down" days. When she palpated Violet's belly on 10/10, the specialist actually groaned at all the "stuff" she was feeling in her oviduct. We discussed the surgery, but I couldn't get the specialist's groan out of my mind. And I finally asked her the questions I should have asked all the other vets: what's her current condition; Is she in pain/discomfort/ Is she suffering? The vet said her pain level was probably 5 out of 10; her condition wasn't good due to a stretched out oviduct and crowded organs; and yes, she was suffering. I told her that I wanted Violet humanely euthanized because she had been suffering for some time, and I couldn't see putting her through surgery and post-op. The specialist said she strongly agreed with my decision and I held Violet while she comfortably passed away.

A couple of things I found out about surgery: It's $1500 for the surgery. They just remove the oviduct; the ovary is usually not removed because of how close it lies to an important tangle of nerves. So the ovary stays, continuing to generate the ova. To stop production of the ova, you have to give them a hormonal implant every 2-3 months. The quote I got was $350-450 every 2-3 months (not sure if that price includes the office visit). The vets who use it (it's actually against the law for them to use the hormone, at least in NC), will say 3-4 months, but the specialist told me in her experience it was closer to 2-3 months. If you don't use the implant, those ova keep coming. Some of them can be resorbed into the body, but some aren't, which can lead to abdominal infection. If your vet says he's going to remove the ovary too, I'd be worried.

I know there are folks on here who have successfully done the surgery and use the implants and I hope they'll chime in. In Violet's case, it was too late. If I had another hen develop this condition and I wanted to go the surgery/implant route, I'd do it immediately while she was in good health, rather than wait the months I did.

Hope this helps. Wishing the best outcome for you and your girl.

I can't thank you enough for taking the time to write out this whole very sad story. It definitely brings up more questions. The vet didn't say anything about the ovaries but, yes, I had the impression all reproductive organs would be removed. I really don't want to cause her unnecessary suffering. The vet says she is otherwise still very healthy and has a good shot at it, but I had no idea about all the hormone support you were talking about, and it is a concern that he didn't even mention it.

 

[Nellzmom]

One other thing occurred to me. Your vet said the only way to know what’s going on inside is to open her up, not exactly accurate. You could also get an ultrasound done. I didn’t mention it in my post, but I asked the specialist to do one on Violet to be sure I was giving her every chance. The ultrasound showed lots of “stuff” in her oviduct, including part of a shell. An ultrasound isn’t cheap : they charged me $250 for Violet’s, but it would give you a less invasive way to see what’s there. The 2nd vet I saw took an X-ray to make sure her problem wasn’t her liver. Her liver was fine, but her oviduct was stretched out/larger than normal. If you have the $ to pursue this stuff, you might get more information on which to base your decision. Folks do opt for repro surgery and it’s successful. The specialist I saw had done 12, all successful and patients still alive. Tough decisions.

 

[Weeg]

One other thing occurred to me. Your vet said the only way to know what’s going on inside is to open her up, not exactly accurate. You could also get an ultrasound done. I didn’t mention it in my post, but I asked the specialist to do one on Violet to be sure I was giving her every chance. The ultrasound showed lots of “stuff” in her oviduct, including part of a shell. An ultrasound isn’t cheap : they charged me $250 for Violet’s, but it would give you a less invasive way to see what’s there. The 2nd vet I saw took an X-ray to make sure her problem wasn’t her liver. Her liver was fine, but her oviduct was stretched out/larger than normal. If you have the $ to pursue this stuff, you might get more information on which to base your decision. Folks do opt for repro surgery and it’s successful. The specialist I saw had done 12, all successful and patients still alive. Tough decisions.

I agree with this post. Are there any other avian vets in your area? I can across a thread a while back about a duck with very sever bumble foot. She was a rescue, and a vet she took her to said the infection had spread to the bone, and she would need to be amputated. They decided the best thing to do was euthanize her, so they set a date. A few days before she was planning on euthanizing the duck, the owner took her to another vet who said that antibiotics would likely kill the infection, and the duck would be fine. I believe the duck recovered and never needed to be euthanized. Knowing this worry might make it worth a second opinion.
I'd ask about the ovaries as well. I don't know much about this surgery, or any similar surgery at all, but these are definitely good questions to ask the vet. If you can't get a second opinion, ask him for an untrue sound. I think this is probably a good bet to figure out what may be going on.

 

[lmterp]

One other thing occurred to me. Your vet said the only way to know what’s going on inside is to open her up, not exactly accurate. You could also get an ultrasound done. I didn’t mention it in my post, but I asked the specialist to do one on Violet to be sure I was giving her every chance. The ultrasound showed lots of “stuff” in her oviduct, including part of a shell. An ultrasound isn’t cheap : they charged me $250 for Violet’s, but it would give you a less invasive way to see what’s there. The 2nd vet I saw took an X-ray to make sure her problem wasn’t her liver. Her liver was fine, but her oviduct was stretched out/larger than normal. If you have the $ to pursue this stuff, you might get more information on which to base your decision. Folks do opt for repro surgery and it’s successful. The specialist I saw had done 12, all successful and patients still alive. Tough decisions.

Yes, he did talk about an ultrasound, but said you can get a good guess, but you don't REALLY know unless you open her up. Having said that, after reading what people had written, and knowing the recovery time, I was leaning towards no surgery - which ended up moot by this morning because it was super clear that Sunshine had had enough. She spent most of the day in my arms, and about 1/2 hour ago, I put her in a box in a warm, dark place so she could relax as much as possible. I didn't even want to have the stress (on her) of transporting her to a vet. She is just so, so weak.

 

[lmterp]

I agree with this post. Are there any other avian vets in your area? I can across a thread a while back about a duck with very sever bumble foot. She was a rescue, and a vet she took her to said the infection had spread to the bone, and she would need to be amputated. They decided the best thing to do was euthanize her, so they set a date. A few days before she was planning on euthanizing the duck, the owner took her to another vet who said that antibiotics would likely kill the infection, and the duck would be fine. I believe the duck recovered and never needed to be euthanized. Knowing this worry might make it worth a second opinion.
I'd ask about the ovaries as well. I don't know much about this surgery, or any similar surgery at all, but these are definitely good questions to ask the vet. If you can't get a second opinion, ask him for an untrue sound. I think this is probably a good bet to figure out what may be going on.

He is an avian vet - not exclusively, but yes. He has about 40 years of experience and has done many of these surgeries. I did find out that the ovaries would not come out. But, as it turns out, Sunshine is way past that as an option. We're just focused on keeping her as comfortable as possible, and hope that she knows how dearly she is loved.

 

[lmterp]

Yes, he did talk about an ultrasound, but said you can get a good guess, but you don't REALLY know unless you open her up. Having said that, after reading what people had written, and knowing the recovery time, I was leaning towards no surgery - which ended up moot by this morning because it was super clear that Sunshine had had enough. She spent most of the day in my arms, and about 1/2 hour ago, I put her in a box in a warm, dark place so she could relax as much as possible. I didn't even want to have the stress (on her) of transporting her to a vet. She is just so, so weak.

Oh, and he is suggestion of going straight to surgery was based on not getting a definitive answer and wanting to save us money.

 

[NatJ]

• Nellzmom
• Post #18
• Jul 10, 2021
• Forum: Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures

I'm not sure how to include a link to my thread about my hen Violet, who suffered and died from salpingitis, but above is the info to find it.

Here it is:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/suspect-salpingitis.1456123/page-2#post-24684546

The first post in that thread is here:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/suspect-salpingitis.1456123/

To make a link when you're on a computer, go to the right thread (or click on the correct post), then look in your browser's address bar and copy what you see there. Paste it where you want the link to go (in the reply to the thread.) I assume something similar works on a mobile phone, but I don't know for sure because I typically access this site from my desktop computer.

 

[Weeg]

I'm so sorry your both going through this. As much as I always like to see a full recovery on ER threads, whatever decision you make will be the right one. I'm wishing you the best, its so hard to go through this with them. Sending hugs, she knows she is loved, you've done so much for her and more.