Suspected Mareks

[Winchikn]

Hello - I think I'm dealing with Mareks and need advice.

I was dealing with crop and reproductive issues and lost 3 hens in spring/summer. Things had been calm and quiet for a few months until my flock went into molt and some issues started showing up. I'm not very experienced with online forums but please see my other threads from this year, including this most recent one (https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/molting-hen-with-crop-issues.1600338/).

There's more details in my other 2023 threads that will paint a fuller picture, but long story short is that I am now seeing neurological symptoms in my flock, along with crop issues, some watery stools , general lethargy/affect, some blue tinges to crops several weeks back, some sneezing (no discharge), and laboured breathing. All things seem to line up with Mareks. I have 9 chickens in total, mixed breeds, mostly 4 years old with one 2 yr old. About half the flock have had some oddity in the last couple of months, that I had wracked up to hard molts and crop issues until the nerve issues really presented a couple of days ago.

I have read the 'Everything about Mareks' post and am trying to get my head around all of this - and I have some questions (quoted with slight revisions from the thread linked above but it is now somewhat stale so I wanted to copy them here - I hope that's not bad form):

• if some of my flock are not showing symptoms, how much of a difference will it make for me to cull the symptomatic ones - especially the one hen showing the nerve symptoms? (I fully understand they are all infected)
• I've been giving vitamins in their water the last 2 days - what else can I do to support the flock's immunity?
• what are the chances of remission, if a chicken has started showing neurological symptoms?
• should I treat for coccidiosis, given a float with low levels? could this help support immune function?

I'm guessing I'll have many more questions as I wade further into this awfulness - but those are a start.

As always, an ocean of gratitude for the support that is available here.

 

[coach723]

I skimmed the last thread you linked to, so if I've missed something important, apologies.
I didn't see anything that screams Marek's disease, and without a necropsy to confirm that, I wouldn't just assume. There are other things that can mimic Marek's, including lymphoid leukosis, which could affect many in the flock. Other virus's (like some respiratory ones) can weaken the immune system and leave them vulnerable to other illness as well. It's also very true that any hen over the age of two can develop reproductive problems with no other underlying cause. It's more common in birds bred for heavy laying, but it can happen to any of them. Reproductive cancers happen with no other underlying causes. It's also possible to have a string of losses that may seem similar, but may have very different causes, it happens. My recommendation would be to have one that you lose, or one that is symptomatic necropsied. I don't know what kind of resources you have there for that and what the cost would be, but then you would have labs and would know for certain at least what happened with that bird, and whether it's something that could impact the rest of the flock. The cost may very well be very worth it to know for sure. It's very hard to know what, if anything, you should or need to do if you don't, with certainty, know the cause. It's even possible that there is more than one thing going on. Before culling, I would consider doing that, so you don't make a decision that you can't reverse. The sacrifice of one could save the rest, or at least help you make the best decisions. I have Marek's in my flock, I don't cull for symptoms alone, I cull if the bird is ill enough to warrant it to prevent suffering. I know it's here, they are all exposed, so that is just my decision. I hatch from non symptomatic birds. Others have made different decisions based on their own flocks needs. But you can't make those decisions if you don't know what you are dealing with. If it were Marek's then culling doesn't get rid of it on your property. Marek's can present in different ways depending on the strain and individual immune systems, some strains are more virulent and severe than others. Many find that after the first initial run of it through the flock then the losses slow and it becomes manageable with only sporadic losses. But I think every flock is a little different. Some breeds, like silkies, are much more susceptible to it.
I'm sorry for all your losses, sincerely. I do think that your best course is a necropsy to hopefully ID what's going on.

 

[Winchikn]

I skimmed the last thread you linked to, so if I've missed something important, apologies.
I didn't see anything that screams Marek's disease, and without a necropsy to confirm that, I wouldn't just assume. There are other things that can mimic Marek's, including lymphoid leukosis, which could affect many in the flock. Other virus's (like some respiratory ones) can weaken the immune system and leave them vulnerable to other illness as well. It's also very true that any hen over the age of two can develop reproductive problems with no other underlying cause. It's more common in birds bred for heavy laying, but it can happen to any of them. Reproductive cancers happen with no other underlying causes. It's also possible to have a string of losses that may seem similar, but may have very different causes, it happens. My recommendation would be to have one that you lose, or one that is symptomatic necropsied. I don't know what kind of resources you have there for that and what the cost would be, but then you would have labs and would know for certain at least what happened with that bird, and whether it's something that could impact the rest of the flock. The cost may very well be very worth it to know for sure. It's very hard to know what, if anything, you should or need to do if you don't, with certainty, know the cause. It's even possible that there is more than one thing going on. Before culling, I would consider doing that, so you don't make a decision that you can't reverse. The sacrifice of one could save the rest, or at least help you make the best decisions. I have Marek's in my flock, I don't cull for symptoms alone, I cull if the bird is ill enough to warrant it to prevent suffering. I know it's here, they are all exposed, so that is just my decision. I hatch from non symptomatic birds. Others have made different decisions based on their own flocks needs. But you can't make those decisions if you don't know what you are dealing with. If it were Marek's then culling doesn't get rid of it on your property. Marek's can present in different ways depending on the strain and individual immune systems, some strains are more virulent and severe than others. Many find that after the first initial run of it through the flock then the losses slow and it becomes manageable with only sporadic losses. But I think every flock is a little different. Some breeds, like silkies, are much more susceptible to it.
I'm sorry for all your losses, sincerely. I do think that your best course is a necropsy to hopefully ID what's going on.

Thank you very much.

I don't want to cull until symptoms indicate it's the best choice, so we will take things one step at a time. I am feeling overwhelmed by the logistics and cost of the necropsy process but I know it is what we should do to get the answers that we need.

I have dewormed the whole flock with Safeguard and will do the second treatment on that to rule out parasite issues, and I think I might treat for coccidiosis given that showed up in the fecal float and might be wearing them down as well.

It is incredibly reassuring to hear there are keepers who live with Mareks. I know this is very complex but I assumed this meant I had to throw in the towel, and that I would lose my whole flock bit by awful bit.

Again - thank you. I will update when the necropsy time comes around. I am not prepared to cull my whole flock but it doesn't seem that Marek's is a reportable disease here in British Columbia that will result in that kind of gov't requirement.

 

[coach723]

Most labs assume Marek's is in every flock, so no, it's not a mandatory cull if found. Honestly, it's everywhere.
I felt the same as you when I had my first one, I thought keeping chickens was over and just going to be a memory. But that is not really the case. I know that some strains are so virulent that people end up losing most or all of their flocks, but I think many more just have higher than average losses, but still very manageable. It all depends on what each individual is willing and able to do, and to accept in keeping chickens.
This is a very good article by another member here, my experience was very similar, it may also give you some hope and encouragement, and some answers to many of your likely questions:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...-i-learned-to-deal-with-mareks-disease.76944/

 

[Winchikn]

Most labs assume Marek's is in every flock, so no, it's not a mandatory cull if found. Honestly, it's everywhere.
I felt the same as you when I had my first one, I thought keeping chickens was over and just going to be a memory. But that is not really the case. I know that some strains are so virulent that people end up losing most or all of their flocks, but I think many more just have higher than average losses, but still very manageable. It all depends on what each individual is willing and able to do, and to accept in keeping chickens.
This is a very good article by another member here, my experience was very similar, it may also give you some hope and encouragement, and some answers to many of your likely questions:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...-i-learned-to-deal-with-mareks-disease.76944/

Thank you, again. This was a gift to read and lifted my heart. One of the biggest reliefs is the reiteration that if I've had no birds in and I have Mareks, it means that others around here likely do as well, so I can stop the running film in my head that involves either never having people come to our house again, or having everyone wear booties/spray with viruscide if they set foot anywhere on our property.

I don't know if I have the time and skill to grow a flock with Mareks, but I do want to know if that's what I'm dealing with and am very heartened to know that there are some breeds that are more resistant, in case I can get my nerve up to continue to have pets that like to die, as the author of that article put it. Every new chicken farmer should be warned that a lot of their pets are going to die. I really had no idea and all told, in 4+ years, I've lost 2 to a bear and one to a raptor, one to a bad infection that surgery couldn't address, and then the three this spring for reasons not entirely known.

In case I get a positive result for Mareks and decide I have the nerve in future to get more chicks, I will do some research into resistant breeds, and consider eggs from someone nearby with a healthy flock who might have resistance to whatever strain might be here. Bit of a toss up between that and vaccinated chicks, but I'll cross those bridges when I come to them.

 

[MissGreenJeans]

Thank you, again. This was a gift to read and lifted my heart. One of the biggest reliefs is the reiteration that if I've had no birds in and I have Mareks, it means that others around here likely do as well, so I can stop the running film in my head that involves either never having people come to our house again, or having everyone wear booties/spray with viruscide if they set foot anywhere on our property.

I don't know if I have the time and skill to grow a flock with Mareks, but I do want to know if that's what I'm dealing with and am very heartened to know that there are some breeds that are more resistant, in case I can get my nerve up to continue to have pets that like to die, as the author of that article put it. Every new chicken farmer should be warned that a lot of their pets are going to die. I really had no idea and all told, in 4+ years, I've lost 2 to a bear and one to a raptor, one to a bad infection that surgery couldn't address, and then the three this spring for reasons not entirely known.

In case I get a positive result for Mareks and decide I have the nerve in future to get more chicks, I will do some research into resistant breeds, and consider eggs from someone nearby with a healthy flock who might have resistance to whatever strain might be here. Bit of a toss up between that and vaccinated chicks, but I'll cross those bridges when I come to them.

Just chiming in to offer some empathy. I’m 2.5 years into chicken keeping, and I love my girls. But I sure wish I had known about this group and read about what to expect before diving in. I didn’t realize that chickens like to die either. I erroneously assumed that if I worked really, really hard to protect them, they’d all live to a ripe, old, non-laying age. I’m adjusting my expectations now. I guess I’ll see if I, too, have the nerve to keep keeping after all birds in my current flock are gone. I like to think I will.