Sustainable Meat / Standard Bred Dual Purpose Bird Thread.

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I'm interested and following this post. I recently purchased some black bresse chicks from a breeder. I intend to keep at least one of the pullets and cross breed her to an Orpington Roo. I'm not sure this would be the best cross for a nice meat chicken. What do you guys think? I need something that will tolerate the heat. I can't post weights of my growing birds as I don't own a scale currently. I just want to make sure I keep the best possible dual purpose rooster.
Why are you wanting to cross the Bresse? Traditionally it is considered "the best" meat quality dual purpose though it does have size limits. For carcass proportions it's very good and is the major reason it's called a great table bird. Selection of breeders for carcass size at early age would move it in good direction. Does it taste better? Yet to try one and honestly wonder if there is hype. You know, all things French in cooking is better type thing. They also claim the Marans is excellent and again another French bird. Which by the way was developed in England from a French land race that laid darker eggs.

If we look at the Orpinton we are basically looking at a Plymouth Rock. They are almost identical in utility- slower to mature, large frame that fills out as adult and about 200 eggs per year. Looking back in the meat industry prior to the development of CornishX the Plymouth was used for hybrids. How it was done was to use the fast maturing New Hampshire as the dam and larger frame of Plymouth for the sire. Plymouth and Orpington will be of good size in 14 weeks but much of that is frame and less meat. In conjunction with a fast mature plus the added hybrid vigor resulted in fine meat birds. Carcass quality (proportions) of a fine table bird. It's a continual process of crossing each year of the two lines which is sustainable. It just requires more space as your keeping two breeds. Mating pens for each breed to continue and then crossing them for your better meat bird once or twice per year. That makes for a lot of chicken! Cockerel culls from two flocks and then your hybrids.

Hybrid vigor is when your cross of two lines results in a bird that outgrows either of it's parent stock. All meat birds are hybrid. They say the CornishX is a A-B to C-D. Use of four lines. How true that is is hard to say as that's trade secret. Who knows? Maybe it's a two line cross and the industry leaks out it's four lines to make it seem impossible to recreate. Industry espionage and deception.

I honestly don't know anything about maturity or growth of Bresse. There is a Bresse for meat thread here but as typical you don't get much data to go on. Estimates of weights and people growing to 6+ months does not provide a clear picture of a birds performance. Hopefully you'll stay on and provide some good data for us.

You shouldn't be concerned about inbreeding unless it comes to lower hatching rates. The lines vigor suffers if gross inbreeding is done over a decade. Line breeding can be done for a life time. There are 30 year plus closed flocks out there with excellent vigor. I picked up hatching eggs this spring from a line that dates back to the 70's. Closed flock of birds and hatched 15 of 19 eggs. As for the discoloration they are still chicks. See how they grow out and you might as well use them until you find better stock. We all gotta work with what we have or can obtain.
 
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I bred La Bresse up until last year, they laid very well and the quality of the meat was also very good.
My main problem was fertility !! and I couldn't find any other stock that I felt was good enough to introduce into my bloodline., as there is a lot of Bresse rubbish here in the Uk.

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I wouldn't say they are the ultimate meat bird but as a pure DP bird they are hard to beat.

My strain made very large birds but the maturity was to slow for me, for the tastiest meat I had to process at 21 weeks but I would only get average 1.6kg bird dressed, for a 2kg ( which is the size I like ) dressed bird it would take 26 weeks which is just to slow when a hybrid can do it in half the time.
 
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After a long hiatus I was finally able to get back to processing some of my extra cockerels. Here's one of my Naked Necks, processing out at 5.075 lbs (2.3 kg) at 35 weeks. Normally I wouldn't have waited so long to process, but circumstances demanded it. I'm REALLY looking forward to roasting this big bird.




Has anyone else ever experienced so much "blush" on the skin?
 
@Ifish I hear you when it comes to multi years. I myself am kind of a Plymouth Rock head. With my current goals it's really not the breed to be working with. Moved and needed to start up a new flock, well who knew the variety we'd settled on was the absolute smallest of all the Rocks. Pretty birds mind you but feathers don't taste very good. I'm looking forward to you wieghts- The New Hampshire is a particular interest. I'm guessing there will be some variation in maturity of current stock. Not to put lines of birds down or sell others rather to find sources of birds that suit peoples goals it would be nice if you'd let us know the source of your stock.

My goal with Silver Penciled Rocks is to bring them up to weight. I've another week of growth before I can post any data. The Silver are far from standard weight of breed which in itself is not a big deal but combine that with some slow maturing and that makes for small portions to eat from the grill. With this variety it will be years of work to move forward toward a faster maturing bird, not what Plymouth Rocks are known for so that's limiting but improvement can be made. For overall weight gain I'm attempting to broker a deal with a breeder of blues. Ok, I've been begging him to sell me a black pullet. He's only got a few blue right now but with luck he'll have enough black of fine standard body type to sell one this fall. Breeding Penciled to black will take two years minimum to bring back the penciling. So I'm in it for 3 years to bring up overall weight, improve maturity rate and get it all back to pretty penciled feathers that are hard to eat. They do look nice though.

By the way- nice handle you have. My email is gut2fish.

Like the email name. Fishing is one of my passions. If I could do it for a living I would.

Yeah, so the chicks originally came from http://eightacresfarm.weebly.com/ .

There is some variation in the stock for growth rate, but even the last place cockerel/hen beat all of my expectations. The lightest cockerel at 20 weeks was 6.6 lbs, the heaviest was close to 8 lbs. Pullets had the same type of spread. Some would be over SOP, some under at maturity. The balance in the carcass was nice to see. Breast meat was what you expect from a DP bird, but I want to increase that. Maturity is not really a goal at this time. Growth weights, fast to feather, laying are our focus, but still staying within the SOP at least with pullets and cockerels.

I have not had any experience in breeding chickens. I always bought sexlinks to replace every year. This is my first venture in actually breeding. With the goals in mind, it makes culling and breeding a lot more simplistic than I had originally thought.

I am drawn to the Utility of chickens. Heritage and history is very cool when you read about chickens, but Utility seems to be lost today be it Feather or hatchery.

That is why I was drawn to New Hamps. Their Utility can match all of the "red Broilers" or "Slow Broilers" for meat (if bred for such), but lay at a pace that 10 pullets can provide an entire extended family and friends with eggs, and then some. If I've learned anything over the last year, It's GOALS MATTER. No vision, no advancement of the flock.

So, multi year project of multiple things.
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Weighed chicks at 6 days, will weigh again on Saturday and post the findings.
 
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After a long hiatus I was finally able to get back to processing some of my extra cockerels. Here's one of my Naked Necks, processing out at 5.075 lbs (2.3 kg) at 35 weeks. Normally I wouldn't have waited so long to process, but circumstances demanded it. I'm REALLY looking forward to roasting this big bird.




Has anyone else ever experienced so much "blush" on the skin?
I've had similar coloring on birds that dehydrated and overheated while waiting in the crates to be processed. But if you did one, that may not be it.
 
The Breese I have appear to be of either mixed or poor stock. They are growing very slow - they are in no way larger than the dual purpose breeds I have of similar age. Hopefully they will gain considerable weight over the next few weeks. I may only butcher the largest bird and then depending on his weight decide to with process or hold off on the other 3. I cannot find other breeders of the black Breese and am considering purchasing the white varietyas there are considerably more breeders with the white.
 
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/173461/bresse-chickens/1820

This Bresse thread would be a good start in looking for other stock. Your birds have slate legs right? I don't think minor discoloring is much to worry about as chicks and can be bred out if all else is to par with the breed.

I assume all Bresse in the Americas are from what was developed in Canada. Blue footed chicken and more recently dubbed American Bresse. Perusing the above Bresse link the only weight found in one coffee sitting and many pages was 3 lbs dressed weight cockerels in 6 months. That was result of free range for 4 months then layer pellet two months in pen. There could have been improvement using a better feed for fattening. Layer pellet is low protein.

Anything I've seen on the Bresse does not indicate they are a fast to mature or large bird. I would expect other dual purpose to easily surpass it in size. Bresse breed true so are dual purpose breed.
 
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Not much to report. Putting it here as my typical note taking is on scraps of paper I wont find until next spring cleaning.

Cockerel @ 6 weeks 1 lbs 2.5 oz (525 grams)

I should be able to find this later. First of age to weight from a fertility test batch. Line this lone bird is from is heavier so will be standard reference for me as to younger birds of line compare and how much smaller new line is. This is how late a start it was this spring....
 
Well, it's been two weeks since hatch. The chicks have been in the brooder most of the time with some play time outdoors since the weather has gotten so warm. Feeding 20% protein flock raiser crumbles only. Plain water.

Week 1: Average of 72.6 grams High 80g Low 64g

Week 2: Average 174g High 186g Low 160g

Seem to be feathering nicely.

 
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/173461/bresse-chickens/1820

This Bresse thread would be a good start in looking for other stock. Your birds have slate legs right? I don't think minor discoloring is much to worry about as chicks and can be bred out if all else is to par with the breed.

I assume all Bresse in the Americas are from what was developed in Canada. Blue footed chicken and more recently dubbed American Bresse. Perusing the above Bresse link the only weight found in one coffee sitting and many pages was 3 lbs dressed weight cockerels in 6 months. That was result of free range for 4 months then layer pellet two months in pen. There could have been improvement using a better feed for fattening. Layer pellet is low protein. 

Anything I've seen on the Bresse does not indicate they are a fast to mature or large bird. I would expect other dual purpose to easily surpass it in size. Bresse breed true so are dual purpose breed.

One bird's entire head and neck are yellow. I'm flip flopping on keeping a pair from my stock. Obviously not the yellow headed on. There appears to be a major physical growth jump between weeks 11 and 12. (my scale has been ordered so I hope to be able to provide weights soon). Thank you for sifting through the Bresse thread - I attempted to but it is very difficult on a phone. We don't have internet at home. I posted questions but it kinda seems like everyone who was originally interested in it has moved on.
 

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