SWEDISH Duck Thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Oregon Blues]

[[[[......Why wouldn't you consider her a Swede?......]]]]]]


Body shape is wrong, head shape isn't quite right. Markings are completely wrong and well beyond merely "mis-marked". I've seen a lot of badly mis-marked Swedish ducks from hatcheries, but even the worse adhere vaguely to the correct placement. The type of markings your duck has indicate cross breeding.

Leg and bill color are wrong for the breed.

I don't put a lot of stock in color. Many breeds of purebred animals have purebred members that are not a recognized color. Purebred Swedish come in blue, black, splash and lavender, yet only blue is recognized. The other colored ducks are still purebreds.

It's like you've shown me a Saint Bernard and insisted that it is a Chihuahua. No. Size is wrong, color is wrong, coat type is wrong. A purebred should be recognizable by type.

If you put together a group of Swedish that have been culled by show breeders because they have rust on their feathers (I've never seen it, but if y'all are talking about it, it must exist). then you can selectively breed to increase the amount of rust. Over generations, you could end up with purebred Swedish with a lot of rust.

But if you take a mutt with rust and call it a Swedish, it isn't a Swedish just because there is some white on it's chest.

I think breeding for utility is a worthy goal. I, myself, consider utility very carefully when I breed. But it is very possible to produce nice purebreds that look like they are supposed to look and that are very good in egg laying, meat production, health, and temperament.

 

[Oregon Blues]

The entire point of purebred animals is that they reproduce reliably. You know before you do the breeding what the hatchlings (or puppies, or kittens, or calves) will look like, how large they will grow, what their feed conversion and laying will be like, plus a pretty good idea of what temperament to expect.

Showing is a byproduct. It is not the reason for purebreds. Showing is a contest to see who can carefully produce the best purebred. But the actual purpose of purebreds is so that you know what you've got and what you will get in the future.

Purebreds have "type". A purebred animal or bird looks like its breed. Looking like its breed is part of reproducing reliably.

 

[Evelle]

Thats why breeder go above and beyond to cull what is not breed standard. If it birds dogs or rabbits.

 

[blkpoodles]

kinda like people calling cock-a-poos a purebred
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[70%cocoa]

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Exactly. Nicely said.

I would argue that breeding to the standard is a worthwhile end in itself (I don't just mean showing but breeding). You can call it a game - and, yes, it kind of is. Breeding within a breed is a competition against randomness and unpredictability. It's a challenging hobby that gives people purpose and pleasure. It's an activity that is all about developing the beautiful and unusual, for it's own sake. What's wrong with that? Nothing. A poultry show is a living art gallery. Within a breed people are striving for consistency, but across all breeds the end result is amazing diversity.

 

[Ducks and Banny hens]

Quote:
You make a good point. I think I got 'purebred' mixed up with 'pedigree'. This hen is pure swedish. All her ancestors are Swedes. and I can confirm that. But she has a mid-rare genetic mutation. A friend of mine said he had Rust Shelties. However I've never heard of Rust Cayugas, so I think the gene may be connected to Black+Bib, because I only know of Bibbed breeds getting it. I also don't see why this hen is the wrong size. Unless you mean the bit of a keel. She's fat. I think she weighs something in the neighborhood of 8-9 lbs. She feels like my other swedes (I have both Hatchery and Breeder Swedes).

 

[70%cocoa]

OB didn't say that her size was wrong but her shape. A Swedish should have a flat back and evenly deep, wide body. They should look a little bit squared off. The head should be oval, with a distinct forehead.

Do you think that 'rust' is a spontaneous mutation in your line? To be honest, if I had brown in any of my Swedish I'd sell them and their parents as pets (not as breeders). It's the one fault I'd try to avoid above all colour/pattern faults. That's the way the breeds stands at the moment anyway. Of course, Standards do change to accommodate new colours, as they should.

 

[Ducks and Banny hens]

70%cocoa :

OB didn't say that her size was wrong but her shape. A Swedish should have a flat back and evenly deep, wide body. They should look a little bit squared off. The head should be oval, with a distinct forehead.

Do you think that 'rust' is a spontaneous mutation in your line? To be honest, if I had brown in any of my Swedish I'd sell them and their parents as pets (not as breeders). It's the one fault I'd try to avoid above all colour/pattern faults. That's the way the breeds stands at the moment anyway. Of course, Standards do change to accommodate new colours, as they should.

Personally, I think (the messy runner head not withstanding) that Rust would be an interesting project for the breed. And besides, every standardized color had to start somewhere. Like, for example, we know most bibbed patterns (not solids) descend from specimens with a little white spot on their neck (sometimes refered as 'primitive bib' because it expands quickly through the generatons) , and then there offspring, with white patches, and all the way down to bibs.
Oh, and Rust is usually a spontaneous mutation, just like the 'white spots' mentioned above. I think this hen is hetero for it (I think homos are deal more browny). But swedes with simple brown are probably just that. (Emily's Speculaum is what defines rust. That speculaum pattern is mostly unique to rust only. Without it, Rusts would just be brownish Blacks).​

 

[70%cocoa]

Anyway, I think we need more duck photos

I have kept two birds from the ducklings I hatched in October. I'm pleased with this black girl:

I think her type is not too bad. Head is alright too. Bib is a bit small - would be good if it extended down her chest a bit. I'm happy with the two white flight feathers. Her neck is not really that short

She is also looking a little ruffled as she was in the middle of preening.

I've also kept a blue boy. He is the best of the blues I managed to produce.

Again, he is hunching his neck in..... I just couldn't catch him when he was standing correctly.

I am quite happy with his lacing.

These two are unrelated (two different sets of parents) so I will probably breed from them in a year or so.

 

[70%cocoa]

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Yes, that is what I have seen here. Not so much a brownish black as brown speckling on the belly and under the tail in particular. Different to your girl.

And, yes, every colour/breed had to start somewhere. If people hadn't pursued those small starts all we'd have would be a few minor variations on the basic mallard. And nor should people stop pursuing new varieties now.