I have 12 eggs due to hatch on Thursday. I learn something new every day hear reading info.
I am so excited!!!!
I am so excited!!!!
Swedish Flower Hen Thread
- Thread starter stoneunhenged
- Start date
Good luck.
, I have 6 SFH due to hatch on Saturday. I candle them way more than I should. I like to see them moving(I also have 1 other egg (RIR) due to hatch that day, and 2 from my own hens (Columbian Wyandottes) to hatch a few days prior. Yep, an unintentional staggered hatch.)
I need to prepare a brooder in the house, and/or a secure pen outside where my broody hen can raise them.
exceptionally frail Swedish Flower Hen chicks; advice wanted
I have about a dozen and a half roughly 2 1/2 week old chicks. 3 were sfh. 1 died (not eating, very poor balance), and now 1 is doing really poorly. He's about half the size of the other chicks, and has been isolated with a buddy for 4 days because he can't hold his own - literally gets bowled over by the other chicks.
I have been trying to hand feed him as he doesn't seem to be gaining weight. Is not an enthusiastic eater. Eats best if his buddy eats - he mimics the behavior, but about half the time he is just picking up the feed and then dropping it, not eating it.
Being fed a combo of moistened crumbles, non-medicated and a feed mill starter mash of mostly corn, oats, soy, vitamins & minerals. There is sod in the brooder, acv in the water. have been trying to get him to eat minced liver, but that hasn't worked. I have gotten a minute amount of liver soup (pureed raw beef liver with a little water) into him.
Today's biggest problem is he has started to back into corners, throws his head back, falls over sideways. This behavior stops if I hold him up to the heat lamp and he warms up. I've increased the heat for him, but that means he can't have a buddy as the heat is too high for the other chicks. put electrolytes in his water and removed the acv.
I will get some children's vitamins as soon as stores open.
Just want to be sure I am trying everything possible. could be a girl, but feels like a roo to me. He is feathering out kind of patchy,probably due to his poor nutritional intake. I am not home during the day, so can only feed him once in the morning, when I get home from work, and again before I head to bed.
Has anyone had a chick make it through this and thrive later on ? or is this just pointless?
I have about a dozen and a half roughly 2 1/2 week old chicks. 3 were sfh. 1 died (not eating, very poor balance), and now 1 is doing really poorly. He's about half the size of the other chicks, and has been isolated with a buddy for 4 days because he can't hold his own - literally gets bowled over by the other chicks.
I have been trying to hand feed him as he doesn't seem to be gaining weight. Is not an enthusiastic eater. Eats best if his buddy eats - he mimics the behavior, but about half the time he is just picking up the feed and then dropping it, not eating it.
Being fed a combo of moistened crumbles, non-medicated and a feed mill starter mash of mostly corn, oats, soy, vitamins & minerals. There is sod in the brooder, acv in the water. have been trying to get him to eat minced liver, but that hasn't worked. I have gotten a minute amount of liver soup (pureed raw beef liver with a little water) into him.
Today's biggest problem is he has started to back into corners, throws his head back, falls over sideways. This behavior stops if I hold him up to the heat lamp and he warms up. I've increased the heat for him, but that means he can't have a buddy as the heat is too high for the other chicks. put electrolytes in his water and removed the acv.
I will get some children's vitamins as soon as stores open.
Just want to be sure I am trying everything possible. could be a girl, but feels like a roo to me. He is feathering out kind of patchy,probably due to his poor nutritional intake. I am not home during the day, so can only feed him once in the morning, when I get home from work, and again before I head to bed.
Has anyone had a chick make it through this and thrive later on ? or is this just pointless?
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Lala...it sure sounds like the b vitamin deficiency issues and symptoms. (See quote from Merk manual below)
Quote:
http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/pou...iencies_in_poultry.html#v3348045?qt=&sc=&alt= "Polyneuritis may be seen in mature birds ~3 wk after they are fed a thiamine-deficient diet. As the deficiency progresses to the legs, wings, and neck, birds may sit on flexed legs and draw back their heads in a star-gazing position. Retraction of the head is due to paralysis of the anterior neck muscles. Soon after this stage, chickens lose the ability to stand or sit upright and topple to the floor, where they may lie with heads still retracted. Thiamine deficiency may also lead to a decrease in body temperature and respiratory rate. Testicular degeneration may be noted, and the heart may show slight atrophy. Birds consuming a thiamine-deficient diet soon show severe anorexia. They lose all interest in feed and will not resume eating unless given thiamine. If a severe deficiency has developed, thiamine must be force-fed or injected to induce eating."
Since it sounds pretty bad at this point and assuming you want to try to save them, I'd get some of the Poly-Vi-Sol (NO ADDED IRON). You can get it from almost any place that sells baby items (walmart, etc.) Be sure not to get the one with additional iron.
I know it's not a natural cure but they may be advanced enough to try synthetic as a desperate attempt.
Keep feeding the liver too...but this sounds quite advanced if that's what it really is.
***
If you want to try to bring these kiddos back to health, this is what I'd try (may sound drastic but you can decide...this is just what I'd do):
-REMOVE SOY from the diet. It can bind the b-vitamines, making the indigestible to the bird.
-Grains that have not been fermented or sprouted also inhibit b-vitamin absorption and can act as an anti-nutrient that can cause b-vitamin and mineral deficiencies. Since they are not thriving, I'd be sure any grain-based feed I give at this point is either sprouted or fermented which removes some of the anti-nutrients and makes the vitamins and minerals useable.
- I'd feed as much meat as possible...some ground meat 2-3 times/day until you see a great deal of improvement. Some of this would the the chopped liver...at least a little each day. You can reduce the amount of meat if you want after they get stabilized.
You might be wondering why all your chicks don't seem to have the problem. It seems that there are some breeds (including Cornish X and SFH) that seem to have either a higher need for these vitamins and/or have not been able to adjust well to grain/legume based diets due to their genetics. I've read of a person who had 100 Cornish X that came down with the symptoms, recognized them, fed them liver right away, and they recovered and grew. This same guy had been raising other groups of cornish that had no problems.
Was it a deficiency in the specific feed he was using at that time? Anything is possible as crops vary from place to place.
The main thing is that getting that liver to them right away - before they were too far gone - brought them back to health.
Quote:
http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/pou...iencies_in_poultry.html#v3348045?qt=&sc=&alt= "Polyneuritis may be seen in mature birds ~3 wk after they are fed a thiamine-deficient diet. As the deficiency progresses to the legs, wings, and neck, birds may sit on flexed legs and draw back their heads in a star-gazing position. Retraction of the head is due to paralysis of the anterior neck muscles. Soon after this stage, chickens lose the ability to stand or sit upright and topple to the floor, where they may lie with heads still retracted. Thiamine deficiency may also lead to a decrease in body temperature and respiratory rate. Testicular degeneration may be noted, and the heart may show slight atrophy. Birds consuming a thiamine-deficient diet soon show severe anorexia. They lose all interest in feed and will not resume eating unless given thiamine. If a severe deficiency has developed, thiamine must be force-fed or injected to induce eating."
Since it sounds pretty bad at this point and assuming you want to try to save them, I'd get some of the Poly-Vi-Sol (NO ADDED IRON). You can get it from almost any place that sells baby items (walmart, etc.) Be sure not to get the one with additional iron.
I know it's not a natural cure but they may be advanced enough to try synthetic as a desperate attempt.
Keep feeding the liver too...but this sounds quite advanced if that's what it really is.
***
If you want to try to bring these kiddos back to health, this is what I'd try (may sound drastic but you can decide...this is just what I'd do):
-REMOVE SOY from the diet. It can bind the b-vitamines, making the indigestible to the bird.
-Grains that have not been fermented or sprouted also inhibit b-vitamin absorption and can act as an anti-nutrient that can cause b-vitamin and mineral deficiencies. Since they are not thriving, I'd be sure any grain-based feed I give at this point is either sprouted or fermented which removes some of the anti-nutrients and makes the vitamins and minerals useable.
- I'd feed as much meat as possible...some ground meat 2-3 times/day until you see a great deal of improvement. Some of this would the the chopped liver...at least a little each day. You can reduce the amount of meat if you want after they get stabilized.
You might be wondering why all your chicks don't seem to have the problem. It seems that there are some breeds (including Cornish X and SFH) that seem to have either a higher need for these vitamins and/or have not been able to adjust well to grain/legume based diets due to their genetics. I've read of a person who had 100 Cornish X that came down with the symptoms, recognized them, fed them liver right away, and they recovered and grew. This same guy had been raising other groups of cornish that had no problems.
Was it a deficiency in the specific feed he was using at that time? Anything is possible as crops vary from place to place.
The main thing is that getting that liver to them right away - before they were too far gone - brought them back to health.
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thanks, Leah's mom ( I always forget your name, unless it is Sue).
I went back out to the coop, expecting to see this little one dead, and it was up and around with no symptom signs at all! I got a little more electrolytes and liver soup into him, and am trying to find a place open on sunday that has the children's vitamins.
Also got a tiny bit of liver into the other chicks in the brooder - not all are eating it yet. Your hint of rinsing it in water really helped to separate the little pieces. They play keep away with it.
I havent fermented feed for the chicks - partly because I have been trying to locate a good feed for them without soy. I can't get feed mixed for me unless I get 500 lbs. so have been feeding nutrena crumbles. In the cities, I can buy premium organic chick feed, for like $2/pound - it is just too much $$.
I did just retrieve a vita mix with a grain attachment that I had lent to a friend - so I can mix some feed based on whatever I can buy at the co-op. will research a quick simple recipe, but that won't have the added vitamins. Do you think the children's vitamins would be sufficient?
I can't believe the diff the electrolytes and liver soup made in a half hours time.
thank you for this info, I hope it can go into that thing.
I went back out to the coop, expecting to see this little one dead, and it was up and around with no symptom signs at all! I got a little more electrolytes and liver soup into him, and am trying to find a place open on sunday that has the children's vitamins.
Also got a tiny bit of liver into the other chicks in the brooder - not all are eating it yet. Your hint of rinsing it in water really helped to separate the little pieces. They play keep away with it.
I havent fermented feed for the chicks - partly because I have been trying to locate a good feed for them without soy. I can't get feed mixed for me unless I get 500 lbs. so have been feeding nutrena crumbles. In the cities, I can buy premium organic chick feed, for like $2/pound - it is just too much $$.
I did just retrieve a vita mix with a grain attachment that I had lent to a friend - so I can mix some feed based on whatever I can buy at the co-op. will research a quick simple recipe, but that won't have the added vitamins. Do you think the children's vitamins would be sufficient?
I can't believe the diff the electrolytes and liver soup made in a half hours time.
thank you for this info, I hope it can go into that thing.
Lala - so sorry you're having issues with these chicks! LM has given you good advice. In some cases the vitamin B deficiency can be passed from the parents to the developing egg - I don't know who you got them from and don't know what diet the parents of your chicks were on, but if it was high in soy or low in meat protein, it could have caused the chicks to be deficient from the start.
We also have to remember that this breed is only in its first few generations in the US. Soil, flora and feed are very different in southern Sweden than they are here, and the breed has not had time to fully adjust and thrive on our own soil. This may be a factor in the lower hatch rates of SFH eggs and mortality rates among chicks.
I urge everybody who keeps this breed to feed plenty of meat protein and to ferment the feed so the birds are getting more benefit from the nutrients. Also, lots and lots of leafy greens like kale, spinach, cilantro...
And extra vitamins when needed.
*sigh* Just so wish you were having better luck with these babies!
i bought starter/grower feed from a mill that had meat ingredients in it, when I called for more info they told me "oh, thats the old label" and they emailed me the new ingredient list which was 70% corn, the rest soy and oats. I wasn't very happy. Even the organic feeds here have soy and are plant based.
oops double post
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the eggs came from TNBEARCHICK - I havent researched anything about the line other than that..
edited to add that this chick might not be an sfh, and therefore wouldn't have come from eggs from TNBEARCHICK
edited to add that this chick might not be an sfh, and therefore wouldn't have come from eggs from TNBEARCHICK
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