Swedish Flower Hen Thread

[Leahs Mom]

Speaking of combs...

No visible sprigs on RB (This boy needs a name too

)






Miss Sweden seems not to have any sprigs.






Miss Gray has an "S" comb. No visible sprigs.






And - a better photo of Miss Gray than I had the other day.

 

[Bernie56]

what he tried to look into was establishing an 'official breed' thru the APA. what they want is hard and true rules. no variations, none of that. the heritage organizations would only accept breeds accepted by apa as well, if I remember.

what i'm proposing is a standard for the physical type (shape, stance, high/low tailset, wing carriage, etc) with acceptable variations within the coloring.. sfh basically should be mottled, with pretty much any base coloration being acceptable. but some people don't understand that mottled means white spots scattered over a darker colored bird. I've seen people try to say a bird is mottled, because it's solid white and has 4 black feathers... (not sfh). no, that's a mismarked white.

the physical characteristics would be pretty easy, for the most part... nearly all the roos I've seen have been very much alike in shape, size and stance. the same for the hens, most have the same body type and such. easily identified as sfh. it's the color and crest/no crest that vary in any significant ways... except that they're mottled. body color anything - black, red, multi, blue, splash, you name it, all with white mottled spots.

we could also set aside some specifics that are NOT recommended, like sprigs, split wing, combs other than single (tho single combs with an s-curve seem to be ok IMO)

I think that the SFH Breeders Club is a great idea! While breeding SFH's is not a business for me (I have them because I enjoy them) I do believe that I have the responsibility to always seek to improve my birds through responsible selection of my breeding stock. There is ALWAYS room for improvement! I think that most of us who have had SFH's for a while are able to recognize if an individual bird is pure or mixed just by sight.(although I have seen some that are a little questionable) It would be beneficial to those who are new to the breed to have some guidelines to go by. I have a REALLY hard time with the thinking that because its a Landrace breed anything is ok until it gets eaten.

On sprigs. I agree with Jeremy that some things which are considered an obvious defect should be considered unacceptable. I have hatched 100+ SFH chicks over the past two years, and have only had 1 rooster that had obvious sprigs. He was crested with a strait comb, but I didn't notice the sprigs until he was about 5 months old and beginning to mature sexually. I have to say though that I cull most of my roos pretty young, unless I am looking for replacements, so its possible that there were more that would have become apparent had they hung around longer. I have never noticed any sprigs on any of my hens/pullets. I have had some, of both sexes, with split wing. ALL roosters with "defects" are culled, and any hens that I don't "like" are sold as layers.

Color gets a little tricky for me. While I don't believe that you should breed strictly for color... I am probably the person on here who is most associated with "breeding for color". I had the unfortunate experience in that out of my first 7 SFH chicks of the 4 roosters, 2 were splash, and two were red/white, and of the 3 pullets, 2 were splash, and 1 was red/white. All but 1 of the chicks from those birds were red/white or splash, so I obviously was looking for other colors. While I am not a fan of the splash, it does seem to be fairly common, and I'm pretty sure most people would not react favorably to being told their splash birds were not SFH's. I culled all of my splash birds (and was criticized for it), except for one beautiful crested hen which I particularly like. For myself though the more mottled... the more I like it, so I tend to cull my breeders pretty heavily on that trait.

I agree with ki4got "setting aside specifics for things that are NOT recommended, like sprigs, split wing, combs other than single" is probably the best way to go about it.

 

[RedRidge]

I think Bernie and Ki4got's posts above are worded pretty well...
It's more a matter of what isn't acceptable and developing "guidance" along those lines to begin to define what the SFH characteristics should and shouldn't be.
But starting with "shouldn't" is a good beginning that many seem to agree on.
My SFH are only a month old and I have no basis for comparison other than my HRIR which are nothing like them.
If it wasn't for several who share regularly on this thread I'd be lost and very frustrated trying to set breeding goals for the future.
While I like the variety of color and am partial to the Mille Fleur pattern/color, that is just a personal preference thing and has nothing to do with "a standard".
I feel the same way about crested... I'm simply not fond of the crested... but that's a personal thing. I'm sure some folks love it.

I'm all for trying to develop the beginnings of some sort of club and maybe "guidelines" as opposed to developing a "standard" would be a better goal this early on in the development of this breed here in the US. I think it's a good idea and will help in any way I can.

 

[SunnySkies]

If any of you have purebred horses, what is under discussion is basically the premise of most horse breeder clubs. What is acceptable, what is not, and while there can be major disagreements -- I have Arabians, and there are some people berating the others for their breeding practices and vice versa right now -- it is a very useful tool for the majority and for new people. It gives a place for people to find good animals and where they can find some guidance.

Most such clubs may be part of a larger umbrella, like many poultry clubs are under APA, but they don't have to be. They have their own shows and own magazines, etc, specifically for their breed and are independent of the umbrella groups.

I do not see why a SFH club could not be done like that. We have our own standard, which doesnt have to be APA (like if we want to allow sprigs on created birds, we allow sprigs on crested birds), listings for breeders, basic information, our own board of directors, etc, and work to maintain the purity of the breed here in the US.

 

[RedRidge]

... and work to maintain the purity of the breed here in the US.

And this should be the most important goal.

I am on the national board for several other breed organizations... this is no small undertaking.
But... with enough people willing to do "a little" it isn't a difficult proposition - especially with current technology allowing for conference calls for board meetings, etc.
Problems arise when just a handful are doing all the work, or when certain areas of the country aren't as well represented.
Best to not divide into regions at the beginning as that creates conflict... just a national "club".
There aren't enough breeders spread throughout the country yet to do more than that.
Also... many breeders are not on BYC... how do we contact them?

 

[ki4got]

ok re: breeder's club and guidelines (I like that word better too LOL)

I'm willing to get a domain and host it, if I can get people involved in helping formulate a set of guidelines and direct input into the website? would need to find a domain name too, that's available.

I looked yesterday, sfhusa.com is available LOL but I don't know how many would know to look for sfh. blommehons.com is also available but again, the name...

the cms I use is fairly easy to work with, and I would set it up so that people can access the info, but would be referred here for forum/chat info.

if this sounds like a good idea, i'd like to have some feedback and/or help to get it off the ground.

 

[texasmomma]

This is my basque/swedish flower hen. It was hatched on June 21st. I think that it's going to be a roo. What do y'all think? For a while, I thought it had the crest from it's mother, but I don't know for sure anymore. I think probably not now.

Please forgive all of the fermented feed on it's feathers. They really get into the ff.

 

[ki4got]

If any of you have purebred horses, what is under discussion is basically the premise of most horse breeder clubs. What is acceptable, what is not, and while there can be major disagreements -- I have Arabians, and there are some people berating the others for their breeding practices and vice versa right now -- it is a very useful tool for the majority and for new people. It gives a place for people to find good animals and where they can find some guidance.

Most such clubs may be part of a larger umbrella, like many poultry clubs are under APA, but they don't have to be. They have their own shows and own magazines, etc, specifically for their breed and are independent of the umbrella groups.

I do not see why a SFH club could not be done like that. We have our own standard, which doesnt have to be APA (like if we want to allow sprigs on created birds, we allow sprigs on crested birds), listings for breeders, basic information, our own board of directors, etc, and work to maintain the purity of the breed here in the US.

Quote:
"many hands make light work" the saying is true for many things...

as I said above, i'm willing to start a website to get things rolling, IF I can get some people interested in helping. I've done web management solo, it's a PITA... (pain in the...)

and I agree we need to get the ball rolling sooner than later, since the breed is gaining in popularity very rapidly.

 

[SunnySkies]

Well, I vote the following:
Create a list of what a good, purebred SFH is NOT. With photos. What it is can come later.
Create a website. What about swedishflowerhenusa.com? Or if there is a way to make google/bing crawl across it and make it pop up under any Swedish Flower hen search if we used sfhusa.com?
I seriously can't ever remember how to spell the Swedish name, lol. So I would never be able to google that, lol.
I don't know how to reach those who are breeding SFH but not here. Maybe e-mailing people we see selling eggs and letting them know of the available resources? There is a FB page we can put a note on.

I don't know a thing about building websites, but I'm happy to pitch in whatever I can.

ETA: and my Arabian breeder mentality came out when I posted about maintaining purity. That is first and foremost my goal, along with maintaining type. When I look at my horses, I need to see that is an Arabian right off. Same with my SFH. They have individual differences -- for instance, I have one mare with a very classic head, and my other has a very dished head with a pronounced jibbah (between the eyes is a bit bulgy) -- but the breed standards are still present, along with basic good horse characteristics (good legs, etc). The two can totally be done together. A breeder works to maintain his breed as is, while eliminating issues that can impact their health, and the breed's purity by ensuring crossbred animals are not used for breeding back into purebred lines.

This would be why I have so many roosters. I'm actually afraid to sell them on CL. I don't like the idea of half bred SFH out there. The pattern seems to be dominant. If I sell rooster to Joe Blow down the road, he might not understand PB roo on barnyard mix hen does not equal purebred chicks. But the chicks will look PB because of the feather patterning, except for the subtle things that newbies might not know.

Sorry for the soapbox. But I saw it way too much with the horses, and there is a fundamental disagreement right now in Arabian horse circles about all of this, and some of what is going on is making me sick. I'd hate to see that happening with SFH.

 

[ki4got]

Well, I vote the following:
Create a list of what a good, purebred SFH is NOT. With photos. What it is can come later.
Create a website. What about swedishflowerhenusa.com? Or if there is a way to make google/bing crawl across it and make it pop up under any Swedish Flower hen search if we used sfhusa.com?
I seriously can't ever remember how to spell the Swedish name, lol. So I would never be able to google that, lol.
I don't know how to reach those who are breeding SFH but not here. Maybe e-mailing people we see selling eggs and letting them know of the available resources? There is a FB page we can put a note on.

I don't know a thing about building websites, but I'm happy to pitch in whatever I can.

ETA: and my Arabian breeder mentality came out when I posted about maintaining purity. That is first and foremost my goal, along with maintaining type. When I look at my horses, I need to see that is an Arabian right off. Same with my SFH. They have individual differences -- for instance, I have one mare with a very classic head, and my other has a very dished head with a pronounced jibbah (between the eyes is a bit bulgy) -- but the breed standards are still present, along with basic good horse characteristics (good legs, etc). The two can totally be done together. A breeder works to maintain his breed as is, while eliminating issues that can impact their health, and the breed's purity by ensuring crossbred animals are not used for breeding back into purebred lines.

This would be why I have so many roosters. I'm actually afraid to sell them on CL. I don't like the idea of half bred SFH out there. The pattern seems to be dominant. If I sell rooster to Joe Blow down the road, he might not understand PB roo on barnyard mix hen does not equal purebred chicks. But the chicks will look PB because of the feather patterning, except for the subtle things that newbies might not know.

Sorry for the soapbox. But I saw it way too much with the horses, and there is a fundamental disagreement right now in Arabian horse circles about all of this, and some of what is going on is making me sick. I'd hate to see that happening with SFH.

I can sympathize... the same goes on in all horse breeds IMO. I have Morgans and Miniatures... neither of my minis is amha 'quality' but amhr is just happy to have them. (not enough arab-y type on mine, I've got mini qh type guys). confusing too because I have 2 other amha registered horses... American MORGAN horse assoc. (not amer. miniature horse assoc/registry).

the morgans are broken up into their own little 'groups' depending on primary origin of the line. aka lippitt (the classic typey all-round useful guy), the brunk (aka pseudo saddlebred - IMO bug-eyed freaks), working western (toned down quarter horse type) and old government - the line that the old us calvary horses came from. I have an old govt girl that was bred to a lippitt/brunk stud, Maggie (the foal now 18 years old) is more working western type... LOL so you can kind of see how things have evolved... there is another, not too common branch, of lambert morgans... they tend toward longer leaner bodies and do well with endurance and event type stuff.
like your arabs, whether they be Egyptian, anglo, etc. too much politics within the groups saying one is better than the other or whatnot.

back to sfh stuff... LOL
I'm thinking we should start a sfh breeder's club thread, specifically for info to be used for that. thoughts on this too? that way we can keep this thread laid back and more for talking about our sfh's. LOL or we can do it all on one.