Swedish Flower Hen Thread

[ki4got]

Thanks that was my assumption. I just wondered if they were like blue/black/splash pairings where you could predict the next generation's coloring with certain pairings. I have a very young quad, I believe the cockerel and two of the pullets are red based, and one more pullet is much darker more like a mille fluer pattern.

Eta: I guess my real question is, with predominantly reds in my little flock will the other colors appear in their offspring? Does it depend on the particular bird's genetics?

technically, they're all red based. the alternative would be silver and I don't think it exists in the sfh, truthfully...

what varies in the sfh (besides the amount of mottling on each bird) is the e-locus genes and blue/black/splash which will vary the 'white' many see. most of the white based birds are actually splash, so breeding two of these together, you'll get more splash. breeding splash to black, you'll get blues. blue to blue you'll get all three, blue to black or blue to splash, you'll get a mixture of what the parents are.

the following descriptions are primarily hens, because with the exception of extended black the roosters are all the same for the other e-locus mutations (the exception being birchen roosters do not have the white wing triangle the others do).

the ones that have more solid blue/black/splash bodies with maybe a little leakage around the hackles are most likely E based (extended black)

birds that are still very much bbs based bodies with red primarily around the head/neck are most likely eR (birchen) based.

e+ (wild type) girls will have a salmon breast and more red/brown on her body.

eb (partridge) girls will have the same overall body color that the wild type have, but will extend over the breast too.

eWh (wheaten) girls will have the lightest body coloration, being more of a light brown or sometimes almost buff, being lighter on the breast than the rest of the body.

I tried finding individual pictures of each one for an example, but Leigh beat me to it with her posting of her girls... which i'll notate.

Ali - appears to be E plus splash (2 copies of the blue gene)




Precious - is definitely eR with blue





Yta - very much E and blue. her darker hackles indicate she also carries a melanizing gene, which is common in the sfh as well.


Birta - a very nice black-based version of eR.




Marta - also a very nice example of eR.






Mace is what appears to be eR since he shows no definite wing triangle.





Elinor - also appears to be E but it's more difficult to say from this picture. she could also be splash, or a very light blue, again it's hard to say.


Astrid - eWh and splash





Ginger - e_ she's a good example of the wild type girl though you can't see her back much, her breast is a very nice salmon shade common for the variety.


Alma - eWh, like Astrid, but blue rather than splash.




Rosa - eb - this produces the 'classic' mille fleur pattern for this breed.




.

Blue appears to be one of the other e-locus varieties, but there is no way to tell e+, eWh or eb apart.

 

[Bulldogma]

I am working on a trial this spring to test that theory. I have paired all of my red/white, and splash hens with a black based rooster. If the red/white hens are indeed actually splash with red then all chicks from that pen will be blue. While its not necessarily a breeding strategy that I would recommend as a rule. I think that a better understanding of how SFH genetics works would be helpful, even if it is only for my personal benefit. In general though I think the blue/black/splash genetic concept works in SFH the same as in other breeds. Right now in my personal flock, I am trying not to breed any blue based birds to blue or splash (red/white?) birds to minimize the occurrence of splash individuals. A lot of SFH folks really disagree with my thinking, and breeding practices, which is their right. Hopefully, in the end, I will gain a better understanding of SFH genetics and not the destruction of the breed.... as some seem to think that I am working on.

Bernie - If you cross a red/white hen with a black-based Mille Fleur roo, you will get a mix of blue MF and black-based MF.

Gunnar was black-based MF


Bred with Ginger who is red/white =


Mace is their son.


Ginger's sister Astrid carries more blue and throws both black and blue-based MF. Ginger throws mostly black but when crossed with a blue based MF or a red/white roo, will throw much lighter colors.

Two blue-based Mille Fleur with lots of red, and one black-based mille fleur.

Black-based mille fleur.


Blue-based mille fleur.

 

[ki4got]

Quote: I would say all 3 of these are partridge based, and you have a black (mille) pullet, blue roo and a splash in the last picture. so you should get a variety of more of the same that you have. all partridge based, with blue black and splash offspring.

and I agree with a previous post as well, splash can be problematic, since it turns your tri color bird into a simple 2-colored one (red/white) occasionally you may get a nearly solid white, as in one of Leigh's girls.

personally I am breeding away from splash if possible, just because I like the variety of colors. my roosters are all black-based and the girls vary between the blue/black/splash with a variety of the e-locus genes as well. (thanks to Leigh's diverse flock).

 

[ki4got]

Quote: Leigh, ginger is definitely a blue... not a splash. which is why you got blue and black. I think Bernie's test will show he (and I) correct in saying the red/white birds are actually splash.

the best way to tell a splash bird, is to look at the wing feathers and tail feathers. a splash will have streaks of darker color mixed with the white, while a blue will be a uniform shade of pale silver to darker blue. (it varies a lot)

also, I disagree on that bottom pullet... she's a splash IMO. unless it's a very pale pale blue. but again if the owner examines wing and tail feathers, you should see some streaks of blue or black , if she actually is splash.

not sfh, but this guy shows what I'm talking about...
this is weeble, my EE roo. he doesn't carry mottling, but if you look closely at his tail you can see the pale blue/white areas I'm talking about. in a mottled bird you may see that even in a black, but a bird that's over all red and white, any shading like that is more likely to be because of the splash genes. weeble has produced only blues and splashes with my mixed flock.

 

[Bulldogma]

What Ki4got said! She's the genetics guru!!

 

[ancientoaks]

I agree with what you are planning on doing. Understanding the genetics of the colors in the Swedish flower hens can only help the breed. I will be doing the same thing with my birds when I can. I bred a blue base rooster to a hen like the one you pictured and all young were just as would be predicted, blue base.

looking forward to see the results of your 2014 breeding
good luck with your birds

 

[puglady]

I've only posted a couple of times here but follow the thread. Took some pics today (or tried to) and thought you might enjoy them. I'm going to use the uncrested roo with the black chest for my main one but keep the other as a back up. I've got 6 ladies, both crested and uncrested. 4 of the 6 have just started laying but the eggs are small and inconsistent.



Two SFH ladies above with two of their RB friends enjoying a rare free range day








spare roo, his comb took a beating this winter

 

[Bulldogma]

Nice group of birds, Puglady!! Thank you for sharing!

 

[puglady]

Thanks! I really enjoy them and find them to be one of the friendliest breeds I have. I love all the different color varieties and like the crested ones best but will use the uncrested roo as I wouldn't want to take a chance with double crested. I like the look of the black and white hen the best and hope the paring will produce some of these. Its been many many years since college biology and I'm having a heck of a time keeping up with the crosses that are being posted.

 

[ki4got]

Thanks! I really enjoy them and find them to be one of the friendliest breeds I have. I love all the different color varieties and like the crested ones best but will use the uncrested roo as I wouldn't want to take a chance with double crested. I like the look of the black and white hen the best and hope the paring will produce some of these. Its been many many years since college biology and I'm having a heck of a time keeping up with the crosses that are being posted.

poultry genetics is hard enough to understand for any single variety, let alone a single breed/variety that encompases ALL the e-locus, blue, melanizing, possibly dilute, mahogany and who knows what else might pop up in the future. LOL that's why they're so variable. each one of these birds may be homozygous or heterozygous for any or all (except the e-locus) mutations listed... the only thing that MUST remain consistent is mottling. that is the primary requisite for this breed... the rest is optional. LOL

having a strong background in genetics helps, but it still took me a while to wrap my brain around it all, and new combinations sometimes stump me until I study them further.