Swedish Flower Hen Thread

[Bulldogma]

BDM - I sent you an email regarding my little Gray SFH girl. Maybe I should post that here and see what folks think.

I had this thought after I wrote it. I thought that if she would perhaps go broody that may change the personality of things and her willingness to stand up for herself and the chicks. Of course I know I can't count on her going broody.

That bird is such a dilemma.

LM - sorry -
I did get your email and was going to reply...

If you can find someone who has all different age groups, your girl would likely adjust really well if put with a group of younger chickens. (Of course this is my opinion and results may vary.) I would take her if you were closer. I have all different age groups in different pens. I've done that before with birds at the bottom of the pecking order with good results.

 

[Leahs Mom]

So far she didn't do well with her hatchmates who found out quickly that she submits or runs. Maybe I can move her in with the next younger group in the future.

Right now everyone houses together but hopefully will have some secondary housing set up for spring. But unless I'm isolating some for breeding they'd all range together I think.

Oh well..we'll see what happens. Spring may bring a totally different situation.

 

[5moore]

I understand GFF imported at different times from different parts. But when you dont buy your birds directly from GFF, what should one do to be sure there flock is as diverse as possible? I bought a trio from some one plus eggs that I hatched last year. She states her birds came from "two different lines". None of her birds came directly from GFF. So is there a concern with me taking eggs from them, hatching them, and then putting those hatched back into my flock?

does anyone have any thoughts/suggestions on this? Bulldogma? TxFlowers how about you?

 

[ancientoaks]

I don't take kindly to people publicly misrepresenting my words or intentions.

If anyone can find any post of mine where I state that the chicks from crested x crested pairings WILL die in the shell or shortly after hatch and present this as fact, please direct us all to said post and link.

If not, then please stop telling everybody that I said or meant something I did NOT say or mean.

post 7965 has a quote by you. I'm I not reading it correctly

 

[Bulldogma]

post 7965 has a quote by you. I'm I not reading it correctly

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/375288/swedish-flower-hen-thread/7950#post_12930222
Post 7965 reads:

"Some breeds have been bred crest to crest for hundreds of years and have adapted.

There is a known issue with breeding crested SFH to crested SFH - high mortality, vaulted skulls, inability to hatch...

Did I state that the chicks from crested x crested pairings WILL die in the shell or shortly after hatch and present this as an absolute fact, or did I say "There is a known issue?" These two phrases are NOT the same thing. "A known issue" means there is a history of problems. It does not mean ALL birds die in the shell or shortly after birth.

Post 7965 continues:

"Every breed is different and has evolved differently. In the southern regions of Sweden, farms had mostly uncrested birds. Other regions to the north had primarily crested birds. We can assume a certain amount of evolutions in those regions that kept primarily crested birds... and that birds from regions that kept primarily uncrested birds would likely have different genetics. Thus, it is likely that the most fatal of crosses result from breeding crested birds to heterozygous crested birds with a primarily uncrested lineage who have not had time to evolve to the point of lower mortality rates from homozygous crests.

Long story short... a Swedish Flower Hen is not a Silkie or a Polish. Just because one can breed other breeds to have heterozygous genetics for crests does not mean the same can be applied to a breed where at least half the gene pool is not meant to be crested."

Please note the verbiage specifically designed to indicate that a THEORY is being discussed... I have put them in BOLD for your reading pleasure. So, ancientoaks, no - you are not reading it correctly if you take these words as statements of absolute facts.
Thank you.

 

[insanity]

does anyone have any thoughts/suggestions on this? Bulldogma? TxFlowers how about you?

She is probably referring to line divergence. Even though all SFH come from GFF if you take two flocks and keep them separate for several generations (the longer the better) they will follow different paths on the genetic level. Basically they are distant cousins. In small gene pools this is often the only hope to prevent inbreeding. In rare exotic reptiles this method is used often to improve breeding.
I am setting up my SFH flock now and am getting birds from 3 different flocks in an attempt to get as much diversity as possible to start with.

 

[Bulldogma]

I understand GFF imported at different times from different parts. But when you dont buy your birds directly from GFF, what should one do to be sure there flock is as diverse as possible? I bought a trio from some one plus eggs that I hatched last year. She states her birds came from "two different lines". None of her birds came directly from GFF. So is there a concern with me taking eggs from them, hatching them, and then putting those hatched back into my flock?

Originally Posted by 5moore

does anyone have any thoughts/suggestions on this? Bulldogma? TxFlowers how about you?

At this point it can be very hard to know for certain what the lineage of a certain bird is. When I have gotten hatching eggs in the past, I have kept track of where the seller's flock came from - I just ask. As we are getting a few generations in to this breed here in the US, it is getting harder to track.

I know that some of my original birds came from someone who was one of the first buyers from GFF following the first import. That person had 3 trios from 3 different lines. I also have crested birds which come from the bloodlines from the 2nd import.

Chickens are not like mammals in that they can be bred within a single bloodline with no ill effects. For my own flock, I am working to get birds from every available bloodline to try to broaden the gene pool as much as I can.

 

[5moore]

She is probably referring to line divergence. Even though all SFH come from GFF if you take two flocks and keep them separate for several generations (the longer the better) they will follow different paths on the genetic level. Basically they are distant cousins. In small gene pools this is often the only hope to prevent inbreeding. In rare exotic reptiles this method is used often to improve breeding.
I am setting up my SFH flock now and am getting birds from 3 different flocks in an attempt to get as much diversity as possible to start with.

So keeping that in mind, I shouldnt put babies I hatch back into my flock?

 

[5moore]

At this point it can be very hard to know for certain what the lineage of a certain bird is. When I have gotten hatching eggs in the past, I have kept track of where the seller's flock came from - I just ask. As we are getting a few generations in to this breed here in the US, it is getting harder to track.

I know that some of my original birds came from someone who was one of the first buyers from GFF following the first import. That person had 3 trios from 3 different lines. I also have crested birds which come from the bloodlines from the 2nd import.

Chickens are not like mammals in that they can be bred within a single bloodline with no ill effects. For my own flock, I am working to get birds from every available bloodline to try to broaden the gene pool as much as I can.

And I'm "at this point" I asked the breeder and she told me her birds were from two different lines but there it stops. The two people she got them from have since disappeared for a lack of better word. The one moved out of state and the other I contacted and found out she had a major accident that required major surgery and many months of rehab and therefore she sold all her chickens.

I've been trying to add to my flock to widen my gene pool as well, not many around me have them though. The ones who do have like trios and difficulty getting them to hatch, what hatches they keep. lol I'll keep trying though. I know I did find one rooster that I will be getting in a couple weeks. BUT I cant get rid of my two roos I have. They are the best personality out of all the roos I've had and I've had a couple sfh roos that were very aggressive towards people. For this reason I've kept these two roos even though there type might not be perfect.

 

[Bulldogma]

Polite roos are a wonderful thing!

Well - line breeding, inter breeding and even inbreeding are not unheard of practices among chicken breeders. Ultimately it is up to you. I wouldn't worry about breeding 1/2 siblings personally - or uncles to nieces, so to speak. There is still enough genetic diversity in those crosses. I'll let some others chime in here with their own thoughts and experiences.