Switch from organic to medicated starter/grower????

[geauxchicken]

Hi Everyone! Brand new here and brand new to chicks.

We picked up 8 chicks about 3 weeks ago with the intent of having organic eggs for the household down the road. After picking the chicks up from the local hardware store, I went to Tractor Supply and bought the 40lb bag of Nature's Best Organic Chick Starter/Grower. Huge mistake (maybe??) on my part, that I didn't even realize there was medicated feed, or that the chicks might need medicated feed.

So chicks are currently in the house in our brooder and are seemingly doing fantastic. Eating ALL DAY LONG, growing like weeds, and providing much entertainment to our 6 kiddos. We've been feeding them the organic feed, in addition to some random worms, slugs, insects that my five year old likes to go hunt in the backyard lol. I did notice yesterday and today two instances of runny, watery poo, but those were both on top of the feeder, so not sure how much more is going on that I can't see because its in the bedding.

So here's my question...should I switch them to medicated feed? Is it too late? If we do switch, when can we take them off and put them back on something organic? If we do have them on medicated starter, will that stuff be out of their system by the time we start harvesting eggs?

Thank you for your help! Looking forward to learning from the BYC community.

 

[Ozarkhomesteader]

Hi! And Welcome to BYC!

I'm sure others have differing opinions on this matter, but as for me, I have never once used medicated feed for my chicks (and I've raised hundreds over the years) and I've never personally had a problem. I used to just get unmedicated because I was raising ducks at the same time. Now I don't do it cause I feed organic and personally don't see a need.

Medicated feed is there to protect against cocci...again something i've never personally had a problem with, and if i did, i would just treat it if they had it. Not a huge fan of giving medication unless it is absolutely necessary.

If you were brooding large numbers of birds, it is really hot and humid where you live, or you've had a history of cocci, then it might be a good idea to use it.

I guess it comes down to a personal preference, but you should be fine feeding what you've been feeding unless you are super worried about coccidiosis.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I'll copy something I wrote a few years ago about medicated feed. It should answer most of your questions.

First you need to know what the "medicated" is in the medicated feed. It should be on the label. Usually it is Amprolium, Amprol, some such product, but until you read the label, you really don't know. Every "medicated' feed I'm aware of from major brands for chicks that will be layers uses Amprolium, but people on this forum that I trust have posted hat some feeds for broilers have things other than Amprolium. I'll assume it is an Amprolium product, but if it is not, then realize everything I say about it may not apply. And it is possible that the "medicated" is Amprolium AND something else.

Amprol is not an antibiotic. It does not kill anything. It inhibits the protozoa that cause coccidiosis (often called Cocci on this forum) from multiplying in the chicken's system. It does not prevent the protozoa from multiplying; it just slows that multiplication down. There are several different strains of protozoa that can cause Cocci, some more severe than others. Chickens can develop immunity to a specific strain of the protozoa, but that does not give them immunity to all protozoa that cause Cocci. Little bitty tiny baby chicks can develop that immunity easier than older chickens.

It is not a big deal for the chicken’s intestines to contain some of the protozoa that cause Cocci. The problem comes in when the number of those protozoa gets huge. The protozoa can multiply in the chicken’s intestines but also in wet manure. Different protozoa strains have different strengths, but for almost all cases, if you keep the brooder dry, you will not have a problem.

To develop immunity to a specific strain, that protozoa needs to be in the chicks intestines for two or three weeks. The normal sequence is that a chick has the protozoa. It poops and some of the cysts that develop the protozoa come out in the poop. If the poop is slightly damp, those cysts develop and will then develop in the chick's intestines when the chicks eat that poop. This cycle needs go on for a few weeks so all chicks are exposed and they are exposed long enough to develop immunity. A couple of important points here. You do need to watch them to see if they are getting sick. And the key is to keep the brooder dry yet allow some of the poop to stay damp. Not soaking wet, just barely damp. Wet poop can lead to serious problems.

What sometimes happens is that people keep chicks in a brooder and feed them medicated feed while they are in the brooder. Those chicks are never exposed to the Cocci protozoa that lives in the dirt in their run, so they never develop the immunity to it. Then, they are switched to non-medicated feed and put on the ground where they are for the first time exposed to the protozoa. They do not have immunity, they do not have the protection of the medicated feed, so they get sick. Feeding medicated feed while in the brooder was a complete waste.

I do not feed medicated feed. I keep the brooder dry to not allow the protozoa to breed uncontrollably. The third day that they are in the brooder, I take a scoop of dirt from the run and feed it to them so I can introduce the protozoa and they can develop the immunity they need to the strain they need to develop an immunity to. To provide a place for that slightly damp poop, I keep a square of plywood in the dry brooder and let the poop build up on that. I don't lose chicks to Cocci when they hit the ground.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding medicated feed to chicks, whether the protozoa are present or not. It will not hurt them. They can still develop the immunity they need. But unless the protozoa are present, it also does no good.

If you get your chicks vaccinated for Cocci, do not feed medicated feed. It can negate the vaccinations.

 

[Folly's place]

Welcome!
If you are feeding your chicks anything other than their chick starter, they need grit offered free choice, so they can digest this other stuff. You can buy small bags of 'chick grit' at the feed store, and have it in a separate dish, or scatter it around the brooder edges, so they all eat what they want of it.
Then, some places have issues with coccidiosis every year unless amprolium medicate chick feed is used until after the babies have been out on the soil for a few weeks. Some of us have never had issues with this, and some folks will have one bad year, and have chick deaths.
I don't feed medicated chick starter and have never had sick birds because of coccidiosis. That's great (so far), but it doesn't mean that someone down the road won't have issues.
It's also possible for them to acquire intestinal parasites from eating those worms, and my chicks have to find their own, when they are a bit older. Just make sure they have that grit!
Officially, to have organically raised chickens and organic eggs, they most only eat organic feeds, including any kitchen scraps or whatever you give them later. And your property needs to meet organic standards, regarding the use of herbicides, pesticides, and all that. You can look it all up, if you are serious about doing it.
Because we don't eat organic foods exclusively ourselves, and we worm the horses with actual wormers, and because the organic feed costs a lot more, we don't feed our flock organically. It's a choice that you can make, either way, but actually doing organically raised chickens and eggs needs to be an 'all the time' thing.
Mary

 

[geauxchicken]

Thanks so much for the information. Think we’ll keep them on the organic feed and have some of the Corid Ampolium on hand to treat if it becomes necessary.

I did just get a bag of grit, which I’ll start offering today to help with the occasional treats they’re receiving.

thanks everyone!

 

[FLXChicken]

Hello, @geauxchicken , I'm a new chick keeper of eight, too!

I just wanted to thank you for posting the question regarding the medicated versus non-medicated starter. I'd also like to thank the others who commented for providing helpful information. ( @Ridgerunner - I like the idea of bringing in the clump from the run we are building / planning on introducing them to soon. Thanks for the tip! And thank you for the explanation re medicated food and Cocci.)

We are using non-medicated starter (our girls are between 5 and 6 weeks), and I have been slightly stressing out about not giving them the medicated starter. (They also have access to chick grit.) They all appear to be very healthy, great eaters and poopers, and I swear, grow overnight!

But I have been going through the forum and reading the various posts. It's been helpful!